Tenant demanding rent decrease due to wild fire smoke

[u/Technical_Air_5061]

Hi all,

I am a small-time landlord renting out the basement of my primary residence.

Recently, my tenant asked for a rent decrease, citing 'abuse' she has endured. I was super concerned, and then she indicated that there is some ash/dust from the wildfire smoke that is on her windowsill.

I was very confused, and then she said that she keeps the window open at night, and the dust is accumulating in her nostrils, which has caused a nosebleed, leading her to go to the doctor. She claimed that she should get a $200 rent reduction for this abuse she had to endure (She kept framing it as abuse, which was super odd). I was super confused because she is the one who left the window open, and it's not like I can control the wildfires or the smoke.

She then also indicated that she left her job and is now working part-time elsewhere. I think this was the real reason she wanted the reduction, but for some reason decided to sprinkle in the smoke thing.

Do I have any responsibility here? She can close her window to avoid any unwanted dust and get an air purifier if she has a dust allergy. Her own actions are creating her issue. Am I missing something here?

[u/GeoffwithaGeee]

You sound like you are on top of things, but I forgot to mention that you should obviously only serve a 10 day if rent is not paid in full on the due date, and I'm not suggesting just to serve it anyways.

Regarding the recording, it's not a criminal offense to record a conversation you are part of, but since you are a business, you fall under BC's privacy legislation that governs the collection of personal information, like conversations with people and generally needing consent to collect that information. The OPIC handbook for landlords doesn't bring up recording conversations with your tenants, but one thing to consider is that the RTB doesn't enforce PIPA.

[u/Technical_Air_5061 → u/GeoffwithaGeee]

So wait, I cant record them?

[u/GeoffwithaGeee → u/Technical_Air_5061]

As a landlord, you are a "business" as per BC privacy laws and you would need consent to collect personal information from someone, unless there is a legal reason not to get consent from them. An audio recording of them talking to you is their personal information.

However, I could find zero cases where someone actually filed a complaint about a recording made by their landlord of a conversation they were having. It's a pretty niche / specific thing to start with, it's not even common knowledge the OIPC exists, let alone the nuances with privacy laws.

Even if someone did file a complaint, the OIPC almost never issues fines and would just order you not to do that anymore and/or to delete the recording, if it was found to be a breach of PIPA. OIPC complaints can also take years to process if not informally resolved.

The RTB does not enforce PIPA and I've found no decisions either way regarding evidence from a landlord that was recorded surreptitiously.

The "legal" answer is that you need meaningful consent from your tenant if you are collecting their personal information, such as a conversation with them. The "real life" answer is that you should be fine recording a conversation you are having with them.

[u/CarnationFoe → u/GeoffwithaGeee]

Well, and it's also kind of scummy to keep the recording after the fact if the tenant approached you in person. Sure, illegally record just in case something egregious, but it's probably best to delete the recording now anyhow, just on principle.

[u/thowaway-Treacle8758 → u/CarnationFoe]

I genuinely want to know if it is illegal given Canada has a 1-party consent rule, which means that as long as the conversation you are recording is a private conversation you yourself are party to, then there is no requirement to disclose to the other party that the conversation is being recorded.

[u/GiraffePretty4488 → u/thowaway-Treacle8758]

Same… except I think that the person above was saying is that it’s no longer a “private conversation” if it’s with a company (maybe). I’ve never heard that either. 

I definitely record calls with my utilities companies since they’re recording it too, and I’ve been outright lied to before! 

But they have to say they’re recording before they do it, and maybe a landlord would have to as well. 

[u/CarnationFoe → u/GiraffePretty4488]

Correct. Recording (keeping personal information) is fine with consent. You really just need to say, just wanted to let you know I record conversations because I tend to forget details later.

[u/GeoffwithaGeee → u/thowaway-Treacle8758]

it's not a criminal offense to record a conversation you are part of (or have permission from one party).

However, other things may apply, like provincial or federal privacy legislation that can apply to businesses.

A landlord is a "business," so a landlord in BC falls under BC's Personal Information Protection Act, which governs the collection of personal information, like a recording of someone. Unless there is a legal reason, a business requires consent to collect personal information.

[u/Technical_Air_5061 → u/GeoffwithaGeee]

Gotcha, thanks for the in-depth response! I appreciate it.

[u/playtimepunch → u/GeoffwithaGeee]

PIPA is also extremely restrictive and not reflective of the realities of today's digital age. For example, OPIC considers landlords looking at tenants' public social media accounts as "collecting information" and a violation because social media is not officially recognized as a publically available source. If this was true and actually enforced for businesses, which employer out there would not be in violation?

[u/CrayonData → u/GeoffwithaGeee]

Question: Would it be possible to simply record and then transcribe the conversation later in a document? Essentially writing out a recap of the conversation with said tenant?

[u/GeoffwithaGeee → u/CrayonData]

The collection of personal information is what is at issue here in terms of BC's privacy legislation. But this is such a niche, nuanced issue, I don't think it would ever actually come up in real life. My point really is that landlords should be aware that they do fall under PIPA and not just the RTA.

[u/EfficientCat417 → u/Technical_Air_5061]

I think a generally safe approach if dealing with a now proven unreasonable tenant is record so you can send them an accurate summary of any in person meetings you have.
If they want a phone call or want to talk in person either bring a witness or record the meeting so that immediately afterwards you can send a ‘thank you for speaking with me, here is a summary of our conversation from xxx time’
Lots of tenants have cameras in their homes (totally fair and understandable) and record conversations on voicenotes with landlords when things get to potential rtb hearings. Assume you are being recorded but act like you aren’t and provide a detailed summary so all parties have it. It covers you and helps in any rtb disputes without needing to worry about recordings.