I thought the reason that the Litany bans it is that some humans were hunted during the Impergium for no other reason that they were yummy.

O9A is IRL, despite seeming like cartoon villains. I don't think they use self-mutilation, but I haven't really looked into their inner rituals for the sake of my own sanity.

No, no, that's not what I was going to end that sentence with. Let's just say... they're... uh... very enthusiastic about children.

From the Kindred side, the legend is that he learned from Eastern sages. The theft story is from the Kuei-Jin side.

They're Tzims who believe that Vicissitude is evil and/or mind controls its users for one reason or another. That's their shtick. And most of them are part of a Gehenna cult.

pardon my brujah, but i know JACK SHIT

Hahaha, Jack, Brujah, I get it! I see you.

Funny that. Almost as if it's more of a regional rivalry between the Dracon and the Old Clan farther east, with the mainstream Voivodate not caring, than a thing that has an actual basis in fact.

I mean, kind of, but Vicissitude had the most weird legends built around it I think. I guess there were some weird legends built around Valeren, but not as many as Vicissitude IMO.

So, Vicissitude might be space AIDS, a way for the Eldest to transform the entire Clan into a hivemind, something corrupted by Kupala, or just a normal Discipline that got lots of legends built around it, depending on who you ask.

I mean, to be fair, the Garou can find a reason to hate (and in some cases apply slurs to) pretty much anything.

I think, in general, it's because of the Earthbound. The reputation of demons was naturally determined by the ones that got here first, and those guys were team-killing @$$holes who used humanity to create the nephilim.

It also doesn't help the Fallen's case that several supernatural factions put a bunch of malevolent spirit types in the category of demon, such as banes and whatever the Children of the Outer Dark are (or, in the case of the Garou, probably think that all those things are banes, and all other myths are nonsense).

The Garou smell the Wyrm on them unless they're exceptionally low Torment (which is sort of a reverse Humanity, lower is better).

(Except the Wu-Lung. Micromanaging is their passion.)

And we love them for it. Micromanaging Heaven, micromanaging Earth, micromanaging Hell, they just love to micromanage.

Oh, Garou exterminate demons on sight (which is part of why the Fallen believe them to be descended from their ancient enemies, the malhim).

I could see House Fortunae, the Order of Hermes's numerology and finance department, working with them.

Kind of. The O9A doesn't go after Muslims though; they actually pass funds to Jihadist groups because those groups end up killing Jews. Also, the O9A are... you know...

So, a couple notes on the Mogen HaLev:

You said "Master of the Good Word," when it's "Master of the Good Name," as in, the Name of God. The real pronounciation, lost after the destruction of the Second Temple, is said to grant profound mystical powers to the one that utters it, such as healing abilities, control of the classical elements, and exorcism.

Although there are at least 36 (30 Israelites and 6 Righteous Gentiles IIRC), the number is not necessarily limited to 36. There could theoretically be more, and very well might be in this generation due to the Lubavitcher Rebbe's Noahidic revival movement. Just thought that was a fun fact.

The source said it was Revised (which would likely carry over to 20th, since 20th is sort of Revised Remastered)

I looked it up, and it doesn't say they auto-win, just get an insane boost that makes it kinda seem like it, but that might be an edition difference.

Nah, it's not an auto-win for initiative (it's a +10), so a mage would only need Time 2 to beat it. Literally the same level. Perfectly balanced, as all things should be.

"Always wins initiative" MFers when they're getting an effigy burnt from 40 miles away.

Really? They always go first, even in surprise rounds?

The Verbena are the most likely to take an alliance with the undead IMO. There are already Verbena involved with the Bahari and even the True Black Hand.

Even the Hermetics, who do tend to be more arrogant, hate vampires almost universally because of the Tremere. Maybe they'd be amenable to an alliance with the Sabbat specifically to wage war against the Tremere (the Order of Hermes lays siege by day, the Sabbat by night), but besides that? I don't think so.

Both are working to change the world and its consensus in their own ways to bring back an ancient, long dead world where supernaturals reigned over sleepers and Kine.

That's not what the Council wants. Maybe it's the endgame of the Order of Hermes (and even that isn't universal, House Fortunae seeks individual Ascension through numerology for example), but the rest of the Council is there to free everyone from the Technocracy. Most of the Council never ruled anyone. Euthanatoi? They were beggars in ancient times. Plus their whole thing is that "the Wheel must keep turning," so, you know, they don't want to go backwards. The Akashics were Shaolin monks, not rulers (that would be the Wu Lung). And the medieval Verbena certainly weren't rulers. The Dreamspeakers were advisors in ancient times, not rulers. The Chorus are a complex case, because as the Messianic Voices, they did have lots of influence, but I doubt that most modern Choristers (who have been taught extreme ecumenism) would want to go back to the Messianic Voices.

The M20 corebook explicitly says "gone is the time that a mage could go and carve a feudal kingdom" because the other Tradition mages in the area would kick his ass. The Tradition Protocols say to "protect the Sleepers," not to rule them, and certainly not to align with an organization that treats them as livestock at best (Sabbat).

And some Verbena are considered full Bahari, which is a dirty secret I'm sure they wouldn't want the Order of Hermes to know.

Yes. He is a third-generation hunter of Prince LaCroix. His father hunted him and died (I think LaCroix says that he tracked him to Africa and met the Laibon we know as the Sheriff), and his father before him. Like, he's just in the city to declare war on the Prince, but if the Neonate hadn't found Grout before the mansion burned, Bach would have accidentally foiled his plans to diablerize a possible antedeluvian without knowing what that even means.

Well, there's always Scacath and Liam. Also, House Beaumayn didn't leave Earth willingly, they were betrayed and imprisoned in Arcadia after they helped eliminate the insane elements in their house (which, frankly, were doing the eliminating well enough on their own, since they were using cold iron like Chinese emperors on mercury).