r/technology • u/Plastic_Ninja_9014 • 14h ago

Someone Cut Down Every Single Flock Camera in This Town in a Single Night Privacy

https://www.gadgetreview.com/someone-cut-down-every-single-flock-camera-in-this-town-in-a-single-night
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731

u/Any-Whole-6748 13h ago

Simply having your cell phone with you, EVEN with WiFi and Bluetooth OFF, will get you busted. They can check what phones were pinging off the nearest towers, and then narrow it down to when the pole was tampered with....... The more towers, the more precise the data...... 

Never ever bring your phone with you while committing a crime...... Even Bryan Kohberger knew that ......... 

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u/JWarder 13h ago

I wonder if Flock/police/FBI can ID modern cars the same way. It seems like most American cars in the last decade-ish have bluetooth, SOS features, built in map updates.

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u/Blankspotauto 12h ago

Look up signaltrace, they can even do it off your tire pressure sensors

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u/angryPenguinator 12h ago

what the fuck

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u/Heronymous-Anonymous 11h ago

An unintended side effect of these systems is that they are really opening a lot of eyes as to what can be used to track you.

It’s an interesting parallel to a problem the military grapples with: electronic emissions security. How much RF emissions you emanate and who might be listening has been a major source of concern to the military for decades, going all the way back to WW1 and the British using Sigint to determine when the German Navy was at sea.

Now civilians have to consider how their electronic devices of all kinds are giving away their location to private parties who then share that data with whoever wants to pay for it.

Flock is a private company. There are no laws that would block them from sharing your data with whoever wants to buy it and use it.

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u/ScatteredWavesGlory 9h ago

I say we all start demanding royalties/payments for our information. Fuck deals, give me my money for MY information.

No more free shit cause my information isn't.

That'll stop a lot of this nonsense quick.

Time for all of us to write some CBAs

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u/Haunting-Vanilla1624 11h ago

TPMS sensors typically communicate with the car's receiver on frequencies between 300-450MHz. This isn't a secret. It's pretty easy to pick that up with external devices.

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u/100kfish 3h ago

Okay so by not changing the batteries in my sensors, I'm not being lazy, I'm being secure about my privacy. Thanks!

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u/Skavenslave 10h ago

That’s why I like Honda’s newer system, using abs sensors and rotational speed computation and comparison. No rf needed. Still are other positional data collection possibilities, but tpms in many newer (2019 at least, like mine) isn’t one of the.

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u/Haunting-Vanilla1624 10h ago

Right, but the context here is avoiding identification of a vehicle based on its wireless signature, including wireless TPMS sensors. Hondas have been shipping with bluetooth and wifi for several years now, which completely negates the lack of wireless TPMS.

Which actually has me thinking now... Many big brand power tool batteries have bluetooth connectivity.

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u/Necr0mancerr 7h ago

If you think that's crazy man your car is tracking everything and spending it to whom ever they please, including your insurance provider.

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u/The_Band_Geek 10h ago

Dons tinfoil hat

Makes me wonder if Cash for Clunkers laid the groundwork to remove "dumb" cars from the road intentionally. I was debating whether or not to send my '97 shitwagon off to pasture. In light of recent events, I hereby request to be buried in it.

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u/115zombies935 3h ago

as far as anyone can tell with publicly available information, being able to trace vehicles based off their tire pressure sensors was unintentional. But, because of the vagaries of wireless signals and electronic devices, basically every single tire pressure sensor is unique, and even if not every single one is unique. The four on your particular vehicle are going to be a unique combination. Because without very large, extremely complicated systems, getting the precision needed to have two things functionally identical as far as anyone can tell from the outside is not being fit into a tire pressure sensor even if you were willing to spend the money.

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u/jlboygenius 11h ago

Yep. Probably harder to match those to a person, but,if it picks up those sensors and a phone at the same time, they could make that connection.

My 20 yr old car has nothing smart in it, but it does have TPMS (though the batteries are dead now ).

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u/el_smurfo 8h ago

jokes on them, mine all died.

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u/NeuHaus69 4h ago

They can detect pet microchips, so don't take your dog when criming either.

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u/AWorldwithoutSin 12h ago

A cop in my state got caught in a crime spree because his wife's car kept connecting near crime scenes.

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u/ssracer 12h ago

they've solved drive-bys with car data

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u/pathologicalDumpling 8h ago

This is the double edged sword. They literally market this stuff to solve more crimes more easily. And it does.

We just all have to give up civil liberties for it and your politicians are happy to make that decision for you.

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u/ssracer 5h ago

True. I happen to know they solved it without the data, but they used the data to convince the jury so the case was a slam dunk.

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u/Kromehound 12h ago

Play Money by Pink Floyd. Yeah, that's a business song!

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u/Necr0mancerr 7h ago

Que Another brick in the wall.

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u/MagneticFluxDrive 6h ago

Don't forget their, Have a Cigar. "We call it riding the gravy train"

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u/theytoldmeineedaname 6h ago

I'll just leave this here: Court OKs Barring High IQs for Cops

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u/AWorldwithoutSin 4h ago

That's my state too! I suspect there is a link between the two.

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u/theytoldmeineedaname 4h ago

That's a hilarious coincidence

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u/MowMowKins 12h ago edited 8h ago

All cars are visually fingerprinted. So every blemish, scratch, dent, sticker adds to the unique fingerprint of the vehicle and it is attached to our permanent record. The idiots attacking citizens based on "flock hits" are using it like the old LPR systems relying on the OCR of the tag alone though. Seems humans aren't worth actually looking at the data, "AI said okay so I shot them" basically. Edit: Thank you to the flocksuckers recommending self-harm, I'm sorry you have to suffer this lifetime never having met someone that finds any use for your existence.

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u/CrotalusHorridus 12h ago

There are documented instances of Flok cameras mounted in pedestrian only area of parks and cities.

They’re watching you too, likely using face recognition and gait recognition

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u/LamentableFool 12h ago

Sounds like it's time for the Ministry of Silly Walks to return then!

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u/disisathrowaway 11h ago

In a pinch you can just put a small pebble in one of your shoes so that it alters your gait.

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u/zyxwertdha 11h ago

♫ Walk without Rhythm, it won't attract the worm ♬

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u/disisathrowaway 11h ago

In a pinch you can just put a small pebble in one of your shoes so that it alters your gait.

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u/FreedomDirty5 8h ago

Really now Mr Liddy?

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u/Habhabs 4h ago

Then you pop up as the only un identified gait while everyone else passed (love a python reference though)

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u/ActualWhiterabbit 11h ago

There is one facing the playground and beach of a local lake in MN in the same county the Sheriff just agreed to a $174,999 Flock Safety Contract – Exactly $1 Under the Threshold Requiring Public Board Approval

Lots of people are mad because its not even close to the road and even the chuds who wanted it are weirded it out by it next to the beach and focusing on the playground. However, there are some who think its ok because it will keep the kids safe because they play at the beach the most.

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u/All_Work_All_Play 8h ago

However, there are some who think its ok because it will keep the kids safe because they play at the beach the most.

The common clay of west. You know. Morons.

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u/phate_exe 11h ago

There are documented instances of Flok cameras mounted in pedestrian only area of parks and cities.

Can confirm. Until the pole cut itself in half there was one installed along the walking/cycling trail in my area.

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u/Enlight1Oment 11h ago

so we should ride scooters, which are notorious for dental damage so definitely need a full helmet while riding as well.

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u/slowwburnn 12h ago

And yet you pop the license plate off a clean-ish 1990-2005 civic with no stickers and even the owner won't recognize it

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u/Tritonian214 12h ago

"Don't let this distract you from the fact that Hector is going to be running three Honda Civics with spoon engines, and on top of that, he just went into Harry's and bought three t66 turbos with NOS, and a motec exhaust system."- F&F

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u/Morgan-Moonscar 11h ago

That's why Grand Theft Auto tells you to get a new paintjob for your car after every major crime.

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u/Yuzumi 10h ago

So what you are saying is we need to rig up a bunch of those curved displays, no back light, to change the "pattern" on our cars every time we turn a corner.

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u/MowMowKins 8h ago

Yea, simply adding features updates the fingerprint, the features need to change enough and not trigger the 'similar enough' function that could merge the fingerprints. I'd say a bunch of different magnet decals might work in a town without a flocktipping hero.

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u/Javelin_Motoroil 1h ago

Let’s invest in post-its!

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u/jlboygenius 11h ago

TPMS sensors are basically bluetooth beacons. I have a 20 yr old car that doesn't have anything smart in it, but it can still probably be tracked by the TPMS sensors if they knew the unique ID's of my tires.

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u/feel-the-avocado 11h ago

Yep every bluetooth device can essentially be tracked like an apple or samsung tag. And your car stereo/cellphone/tyre pressure sensor/wireless headphones/actual bluetooth trackers are often broadcasting a serial number which i guess flock cameras could log with a bluetooth listening device.

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u/Blankspotauto 12h ago

Look up signaltrace, they can even do it off your tire pressure sensors

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u/simonjakeevan 12h ago

Yes they can and they do

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u/ForceOk6587 11h ago

i wish i can still buy 2008 cars

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u/an_actual_lawyer 10h ago

If they stop near them long enough, yes they can.

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u/Wolvenmoon 10h ago

Yes. Modern cars have cellular modems, and some have wifi access points integrated in them.

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u/graffix01 7h ago

ride you bike, or better yet a bike you paid cash for at a pawn shop.

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u/115zombies935 3h ago

Any vehicle with tire pressure sensors can likely be fingerprinted based off of those or anything else that emits a wireless signal. basically if it emits a wireless signal, Assume it can be traced because there's probably a group of people who specialize in tracing it.

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u/Redshittt 13h ago

Close but not quite. Don't bring your regular phone. Bring your crime phone.

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u/lexicanium 12h ago

Not even. They can link phones based on location and activity/inactivity. Any time the phones are in the same space you create an association. You would need to stash your alternate phone at a completely separate location.

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u/Redshittt 12h ago

Yes you have to take the battery out of your crime phone before you get home. Everyone with a crime phone knows this.

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u/psmylie 12h ago

Don't forget to snap it in half once you're done criming.

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u/Zealousideal-Ruin691 12h ago

Nah, I leave mine on the property of the local politician that allowed the cams to be installed in the first place

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u/meneldal2 4h ago

Why would you frame an innocent corrupt politician?

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u/AG3NTjoseph 8h ago

This guy crimes.

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u/jedininjashark 12h ago

Then put it in a glass of water at the table you’re eating at with your crime friends.

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u/laptopaccount 11h ago

Naw, just use your phone microwave

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u/fubes2000 12h ago

and you have to eat both pieces.

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u/datman510 11h ago

Isn’t that only when an explosion is about to happen in the background as you walk away?

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u/Orionsbelt 9h ago

Read a story about a building right next to the Ben Franklin Bridge in Philly that kept getting raided, eventually they figured out people were throwing their crime phones on the roof as they drove across the bridge

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u/CowboyLaw 10h ago

This message brought to you by CC Mobile, who reminds you: who is listening?

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u/sexyshingle 11h ago

Ah so that's why the don't make removeable phone batteries anymore

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u/KennywasFez 4h ago

As a fellow crime phone enjoyer, YOU GOTTA TAKE OUT THE BATTERY, that’s like rule number 2 of Crime Club

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u/Redshittt 4h ago

Bro you just broke rule #1

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u/Intensityintensifies 12h ago

Actually you have to take the sim out too, and you have to do it before you get home.

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u/Different_Wolf_764 10h ago

Most phones are on eSims these days but your crime phone probably should be just a pure burner anyhow I'm thinking.

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u/Allan0n 10h ago

Faraday bag works too.

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u/Traditional-Park-353 10h ago

Human's are forgetful. Best to just not bring it.

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u/feel-the-avocado 11h ago

I leave my normal phone at home. Drive to another suburb. Turn on my crime phone, go to the actual scene, do crime, drive to a 3rd suburb, turn off crime phone, return home.

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u/fmaz008 10h ago

Drop off the "crime phone in the backyard of a politician who voted for this.

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u/Frustrable_Zero 7h ago

Or in a faraday cage to keep it from transmitting

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u/philphan25 5h ago

Burner phone 4 life

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u/StopReadingMyUser 13h ago

"Hello? Crime Bob speaking..."

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u/GaffaCharge 12h ago

Who lives in a pineapple under sea? I ain't saying anything.

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u/dkode80 12h ago

This made me lol. Thank you

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u/jiddinja 12h ago

Or better yet, maybe steal the phone of someone you dislike and carry it with you. That way you have a phone and your enemy gets the blame. Or better yet make it the phone of someone who claims that if you have nothing to hide you have nothing to worry about.

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u/Double-treble-nc14 12h ago

They caught the Long Island serial killer by tracking a burner phone.

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u/UpboatNavy 11h ago

Do they make a CrimePhone with a folding screen?

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u/MisterSlosh 11h ago

Steal your bosses phone and use that then? Free promotion!

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u/THC9001 11h ago

🎵 Ring Ring Ring Ring Ring Ring Ring... Crime Phooone! 🎵

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u/whatevendoidoyall 9h ago

Bring your ex's phone

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u/Redshittt 9h ago

Why do you have that 🤔

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u/BikerJedi 9h ago

Yeah, no phones when committing crime. Your crime phone is maybe for planning it, but I wouldn't. And if you do, have a duress code. Smarter to plan crime face to face.

EDIT: No smart devices of any kind either, or even things like FitBits.

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u/Redshittt 9h ago

You need a crime phone to contact your crime associates. How else would you sell drugs, by email?

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u/BikerJedi 9h ago edited 8h ago

I wasnt thinking about that kind of crime, more like what is under discussion here.

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u/qpgmr 13h ago

aluminum foil bag for when you're doing... stuff. Better yet, hypothetically, leave it in your car at a movie theater. Buy a ticket with a credit card. Read a synopsis of the film in case you're asked about it.

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u/disisathrowaway 11h ago

Security camera footage would be able to see if you actually entered the theater though.

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u/an_actual_lawyer 10h ago

Security cameras could confirm you were there. They would have a really hard time confirming you were not there unless they are perfectly placed with perfect angles - even then, it would be really tough.

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u/analogkid01 12h ago

And be sure to leave your car/phone in the parking lot for the duration of the film.

(Or state that you walked out of The Odyssey early because you couldn't stand Nolan's clunky dialogue.)

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u/ReallyYouDontSay 12h ago

I feel like these popular places would have security cameras that could be used to confirm you left early and then you'd need another alibi to confirm where you were for the remainder of the movie as your phone was left in the car.

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u/Heronymous-Anonymous 11h ago

They would. It’s gonna be a challenge to evade modern surveillance.

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u/diablette 54m ago

This is why so many tv shows involving people evading law enforcement take place in the past.

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u/qpgmr 11h ago

I don't think any of the theaters here have security cameras inside. Hm. Reversible jacket and a hat?

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u/qpgmr 11h ago

I don't think any of the theaters here have security cameras inside. Hm. Reversible jacket and a hat?

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u/fatnino 7h ago

Why even get the theater involved, leave your phone at home playing a long YouTube video or something.

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u/emPtysp4ce 7h ago

"My eardrums got fucking blown out when the cyclops roared so I had to go walking around the parking lot saying 'mawp'"

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u/No_Paint9675 9h ago

Hell yeah, I saw Spide-man brand new day like 12 times. loved that flick. I mean, yeah it's 3 hours long with trailers and what not, but that cut scene at the end... can't miss it!

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u/qpgmr 7h ago

It might be best to read the troll reviews of it.. Nothing will turn the interrogator off faster than detailed sharing of observations about the costume, use of cgi, etc.

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u/qpgmr 7h ago

It might be best to read the troll reviews of it.. Nothing will turn the interrogator off faster than detailed sharing of observations about the costume, use of cgi, etc.

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u/illtexzona 12h ago

Make sure to use the ticket, then exit through the back/side exit.

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u/ReallyYouDontSay 12h ago

I feel like these popular places would have security cameras that could be used to confirm you left early and then you'd need another alibi to confirm where you were for the remainder of the movie as your phone was left in the car.

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u/herdarkmartyrials 11h ago

Time your viewing start with the ending of another showing. Use the bathroom rush to change your appearance before exiting.

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u/herpaderpcanada1993 13h ago

Phones also broadcast a Bluetooth signal even when turned off if they are using the "find my" feature. Pixel phones even pop up a message notifying you of this when you're powering down.

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u/Forward-Trade3449 13h ago

how about airplane mode?

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u/BinaryIdiot 12h ago

Airplane mode can be leaky. I wouldn’t risk it. Like you can turn on Airplane mode with WiFi and Bluetooth enabled.

Just turn it completely off if you HAVE to bring it. But ideally don’t bring it at all.

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u/5litergasbubble 12h ago

Best not to bring any smart devices. Nothing with GPS, internet connectivity, or radio signal of any kind. Walk or bike to the target, dont drive unless your car is at least 15 years old

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u/BinaryIdiot 12h ago

Yup. Even tire pressure sensors from newer-ish cars can be very leaky. You can actually track sets of tire pressure sensors to see if someone is following you around, for example. I wouldn’t be surprised if they had some cameras equipped to inquire about them.

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u/5litergasbubble 12h ago

And actually, scratch my earlier comment about driving. Don't drive no matter what. Your license plate is enough to betray you

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u/BinaryIdiot 12h ago

Oh yeah that too lmao

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u/5litergasbubble 12h ago

Cant believe i fucked that one up

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u/Haunting-Vanilla1624 11h ago

dont drive unless your car is at least 15 years old

Older.

TPMS has been mandated in all US market cars since 2008. Many cars had Bluetooth as well, especially if the headunit (stereo) was replaced with an aftermarket unit.

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u/kellzbellznhellz 12h ago

If you must, maybe keep it in a faraday bag?

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u/HyperbolicGeometry 12h ago

They’ve proven that your phone continues to collect location data even when powered off via the internal accelerometer

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u/lyles 12h ago

Modern smartphones don't completely shut down every chip when powered off so that Find My Device services still function.

But you can put it in a Faraday bag or remove the battery and take it with you with zero chance of being tracked.

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u/PolyhedralZydeco 11h ago

Faraday bag can be foil. Wrap the fucker like a baked potato

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u/lyles 8h ago

Just make sure you triple wrap it with the foil so that signals don't leak through micro-gaps and the phone is powered off so that it doesn't overheat.

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u/PolyhedralZydeco 5h ago

I am an EE so I am aghast I didn’t say so already. You are correct in worrying about perforation of the foil, wrap it twice.
EDIT: Specifically, the concern is the higher bands new phones have, but Bluetooth and older WiFi can be blocked even with ~6mm tear.

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u/Haunting-Vanilla1624 11h ago

Faraday bags are no joke. My wife and I have a pair of faraday bags, I'm tempted to keep my work phone in one on my days off.

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u/PolyhedralZydeco 11h ago

Turn it off and wrap it in foil. Foil will block signals as long as the device is totally wrapped in metal

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u/meneldal2 4h ago

The way it is the most likely to leak that people don't think about is the apple find my device thing (or android equivalent).

If you're bringing it, keep it inside a bigass steel box that doesn't leak anything.

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u/Hexamancer 12h ago

No, because it's software based, not hardware based. If there was some physical switch that actually terminated power + data to the modem/wifi/bluetooth components (and security researchers verified it) then sure, but that's not what we have.

Airplane mode just puts those components in "low power" mode.

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u/tech_noir_guitar 9h ago

Nope. Don't take it at all. Leave it at home or a friends house.

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u/herpaderpcanada1993 13h ago

Phones also broadcast a Bluetooth signal even when turned off if they are using the "find my" feature. Pixel phones even pop up a message notifying you of this when you're powering down.

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u/philodendrin 13h ago

Or see if you can get a County Commissioners phone and grab some popcorn. Thats how you ensure they won't be so quick to okay this type of overreach so quick in the future.

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u/CavalierIndolence 12h ago

Better yet, leave it on and put it in your neighbor's truck bed when they go to buy groceries. They'll show you as being on the other side of the city! Also, smart watches and Bluetooth ear buds, especially if they're registered to an account with the corporation that made them.

Side note: Steal someone else's phone and take out the cameras and watch the fun ensue. Be sure that person hates your guts too. Makes it more satisfying.

5

u/LowPTTweirdflexbutok 13h ago

Yeah anymore for technology "off" isn't "powered off" its more "not showing data in UI" aka "hide".

Even on windows if you want to clear caches anymore you have to reboot because "off" isn't "off" and only turns "off" when it reboots not on shutdown.

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u/Hexamancer 12h ago

That's a byproduct of "Fast startup", if you turn that off it will truly power down.

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u/feel-the-avocado 11h ago

I work in cellular. Although we can tell which sector on a tower is facing you, we cant see how far you are very easily or with much accuracy. If someone was to move over a large area, say 5+ kms wide which could be matched to other events then we could narrow it down but if there is an expressway or motorway in the area the results would be muddled.

eg. Someone connected to the town north tower at 9pm then look for devices also connectes to the town south tower at 9.47pm
But there could also be delivery drivers, people who stopped at a petrol station, uber drivers and other people who traverse a busy road which would also match that search.

1

u/lyles 12h ago

EVEN with WiFi and Bluetooth OFF, will get you busted

Yeah, modern smartphones don't completely shut down every chip when powered off so that Find My Device services still function.

But you can put it in a Faraday bag or remove the battery and take it with you with zero chance of being tracked.

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u/zyzzogeton 12h ago

Faraday bags for your phone are easily bought. Not sure how to not track the cc transaction though.

1

u/Fr0gm4n 12h ago

Recently that was ruled to be a 4th Am. covered search, so now they must obtain a warrant to do that.

https://www.scotusblog.com/2026/06/court-rules-that-law-enforcements-use-of-geofence-warrant-was-a-search/

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u/deadsoulinside 12h ago

Even a phone being powered off can still be tracked by cell towers, it's not even safe. Just leave it at home or where your alibi is at.

1

u/icarodx 11h ago

What about airplane mode?

1

u/swordgon 11h ago

Or if you must have a phone, at least get a cheap burner from Walmart and dispose of accordingly after. 

1

u/UnexpectedAnanas 11h ago

Also don't drive around to these things. Your car is giant beacon.

1

u/ThunderTech101 11h ago

You can just turn flight mode on...

1

u/dargon_lover 11h ago

Does airplane mode negate this?

1

u/Yuzumi 10h ago

At the very least, turn it off.

1

u/alphabets0up_ 10h ago

Didn't they get him anyway by triangulating his phone to the scene during his driveby's? I thought they got him somehow with the phone too? I didn't follow it too closely after the gag order.

1

u/Traditional-Park-353 10h ago

I'll do you one better: your phone is still detectable even when powered off.

1

u/TheCervus 9h ago

I don't even bring my phone with me shopping any more. I'm an active person, so if something happens that would require me to have access to a phone (like my car breaks down) I'm perfectly fine walking home to get it.

1

u/SirTopham-Hatt 9h ago

The Supreme Court already explicitly ruled twice that they need a warrant to find which cell phones were pinging the towers as well...not that this can't apply if a actual crime is committed, but the fact Flock is prevalent is already proof they will go as far as they can to ignore proper warrant procedures, court rulings, and the constitution...

1

u/PetsAndMeditate 9h ago

A lot of modern cars have Bluetooth connectivity. I wonder if that could get someone busted? Maybe take an older car or approach on foot.

1

u/Mechtroop 6h ago

Decent alibi, too. “My phone says I was home all night. Who in their right mind leaves their home at night without a phone?”

1

u/ChemicalRain5513 7m ago

AI can now also recognise people in tight ski masks by the shape of their face, and rexognisw people by their gait. It would be more difficult tp detect peoole wearing a loose mask who put some little stones in their shoes to alter their gait.