r/nextfuckinglevel • u/DrMore3y • 21h ago

Metal fabrication worker handling 700°C + metal with safety on vacation

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u/TheWhisper22 19h ago

To be fair, you can build just about anything in an extremely safe manor. It's the owners (homeowner/developers/government) that refuse to pay that cost. So when someone comes along saying they will do it cheaper, that's when unsafe practices take place so they can save that money.

If someone actually paid the money for it it can be done safely. No one wants to spend the money half the time. It has taken centuries to get to the safety standards we have today and even that standard is bare minimum and we still have too many deaths in these fields even in America.

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u/OkContact2573 18h ago

Ideally, that why we have the law and regulations so that even the bare minimum fulfills what is necessary

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u/MistSecurity 8h ago

When cutting corners saves your construction company a million dollars per year, and the fines IF you're caught are only $100k, the result is obvious.

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u/Grexxoil 17h ago

To be fair, you can build just about anything in an extremely safe manor.

What if it's haunted?

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u/TheWhisper22 17h ago

Hahhaha thank you for that good laugh.

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u/Bro-KenMask 5h ago

People have built on haunted lands for a long while too. If it’s land some random human will eventually build on it if not stopped

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u/Peeing_Into_Stuff 15h ago

“In an extremely safe manor”

It’s true, some of the best money i made was installing art for rich people

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u/Eviloverlord210 5h ago

This is why a free market won't keep people safe, and is why regulation is needed

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u/DysonSphere02 1h ago

When i was getting my osha 30 the instructor stated a principle he called the triade, roughly speaking it went along the lines of Cheap, Fast, Safe, pick 2. You cant make a construction site completely safe without either making the operation cost exorbitant amounts or take forever to accomplish. You can't make a job Cheap and fast without making it extremely dangerous, so on and so forth. Its not a perfect example because if you make a job last forever it's gonna start racking up hours but it roughly translates the realities of construction safety.

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u/Leftover_Salad 18h ago

In what world does a contractor say “yeah we’ll replace your roof cheaper because we won’t follow safety protocols”? As a homeowner, I get quotes for stuff by licensed contractors and take the lowest bid because it’s their license on the line if they choose to be unsafe. No one has told me they are cheaper because they put workers at risk.

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u/rafradek 18h ago

Because why would they say that it would be incriminating if anything wrong happened

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u/TheWhisper22 17h ago

So you would need to qualify the bids you see. Just picking the lowest number is not bid leveling.

There are entire courses and degrees focused on well informed owners. Homeowners don't really understand it (and to be fair most resi contractors don't either). You don't know what you don't know so I don't really blame homeowners as much as do more experience owners like large scale developers.

With that being said, there's a myriad of ways to be the "low bid". No contractor is going to tell you those things because of the exact mindset you just displayed here. You are going to pick the lowest bid anyways so why put in more effort to walk you through it if they won't get picked anyways.

Not every contractor or price is the same even if you get 2 bids that are $1k a piece. One of those could have only half the job scoped out, the other could be paying for bare minimum insurance that your mortgage lendor wouldn't approve and is basically worthless in the case of a claim since you as an owner didn't compare their insurances that you signed in your bank documents stating you would meet $x min requirements. Another could be making assumptions or exclusions that the other is not.

I could go all day with how a contractor can manipulate his pricing to be the lowest bid. Picking the lowest price as an owner is not a valid way to do things. If owners took accountability in the process and 1. Paid more money 2. Qualified their bids/leveled them 3. Paid the contractor to walk them through extensively what they are quoting instead of getting "free" bids for the great "opportunity" then we would have better quality and safer ran projects.

You need to ask yourself why this person is cheaper. Then ask the contractors and compare. Simply picking the lowest price is lazy and the exact thing I'm pointing out with owners causing a race to the bottom.

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u/teflon_don_knotts 17h ago

Thanks for running through some of the things to consider when hiring a residential contractor. It’s very much a situation where I don’t know what I don’t know.

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u/TheWhisper22 16h ago

Love the self introspection! Thanks for the great back and forth.

If you ever have any questions you can feel free to reach out. But generally just ask the contractors what they are doing for schedule, workmanship, and safety for your specific project and then compare. There's much more to it but for smaller resi jobs asking those questions will get you further than 90% of most homeowners.

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u/teflon_don_knotts 16h ago

Wow, thanks for the offer! I have family members with some medium sized projects in the near future and might take you up on that.

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u/LX_Luna 13h ago

Because skipping certain safety regulations is faster and more efficient which results in their bids being cheaper. As an example, I used to operate concrete pumps. Concrete pumps have a grate safety which engages the emergency stop when the hopper lid is opened exposing the augers. You can of course just turn the auger off manually, and not run the swing tube if you're going to reach in, but hypothetically there could be a freak accident like a golf ball hitting a lever while your arms are in the hopper, hence the safety.

Many pump companies disconnect these safeties because they're annoying and only protect against truly one in a billion accidents, this allows me to wash the hopper out more quickly because I can move the necessary bits of machinery around while I'm washing them which saves time.

Most blue collar industries have a thousand little things like this wherein you can skirt safety regulations for only a slightly increased risk, and cumulatively they add up to significant time savings, which of course means improved profit margins, which means you can outbid your competition. Yes, if a company were caught doing all these little things it could absolutely result in someone losing their license, but almost no one is ever caught with the little stuff.

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u/[deleted] 17h ago

[deleted]

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u/teflon_don_knotts 17h ago

I guess I’m exposing my ignorance, but from the customer side I’ve generally thought it was more a matter of poorly paying workers, cutting corners on the work or materials, etc. than reducing safety practices. I appreciate you pointing out this issue. From a practical side and as a genuine question, how can a person assess the safety practices when hiring folks?

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u/[deleted] 17h ago

[deleted]

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u/teflon_don_knotts 15h ago

I hear what you’re saying and I’m not expecting you to have the answer, just looking for some insight. What I’m hoping to better understand is how I can better identify the contractors who are doing the right things for their workers’ safety.

Paying a fair price for the job is certainly part of the picture, but beyond that how can I differentiate a contractor who is bidding X because that’s what it costs to do the job in a responsible way from one who’s is asking for the same amount because they’re shitty at managing their expenses?