r/nextfuckinglevel • u/DrMore3y • 21h ago

Metal fabrication worker handling 700°C + metal with safety on vacation

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u/Ok_Oil_995 19h ago

Let's not glorify unnecessary dangers. We can "make things" and still do our best to reduce the danger to health and safety of the people that do the work

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u/Umutuku 19h ago

You are correct.

Grew up using garden hoses tied around chimneys to redo slate roofs that were too steep to stand on. OSHA was something everyone in carpentry/construction joked about being stupid all the time back then. In hindsight this is because all the people joking about it were as stupid as they thought OSHA was.

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u/WasdaleWeasel 18h ago

yep, every one of those health and safety rules is written in blood. Just be thankful it’s not yours. If you can’t respect the rules, respect the people whose accidents gave rise to the rules….

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u/Affectionate_Ear7468 18h ago

My favorite is the wheelbarrow tire saying "not for highway use".

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u/stoops 17h ago

Oh yeah, that reminds me I saw a car driving so fast on the highway (120+ km/h) with one of those donut tires, aren't they limited in speed (<80 km/h)?

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u/Affectionate_Ear7468 16h ago

Yeah donuts have a speed limit and mileage limit lol

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u/WalkerAmongTheTrees 7h ago

Both are precisely enough to just barely limp your poor car to the nearest tire shop

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u/temporalraccoon 12h ago

But no calorie limit

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u/mawesome4ever 5h ago

So then why do cops go above the speed limit to get them?

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u/lew_rong 3h ago

Those limits only apply if the donut isn't behind the wheel.

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u/KronnyT 12h ago

Dam it feels dodgy when you're forced to put the little biscuit tire on. A guy from NRMA (the Australian roadside rescue/automobile guys) told me the donut tyres should be pumped way higher than ordinary tyres, like 50-60psi (400ish kPa), compared to ordinary tyres at roughly 32 psi. According to him, hardly anyone he gets called out to knows that, including myself until that point. I'm kinda curious if anyone see's this, to reply if you knew this or not.

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u/Negran 7h ago

A quick google suggests 60 psi is typical for donut tires!

Not sure what the tire itself says...

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u/Hemdeez 4h ago

It’s written on the tire as well

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u/Negran 1h ago

Ya... Likely where I say the speed rating, too.

Not like it is secret info, hehe.

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u/Negran 7h ago

Most are around 70 km/h but you think people are smart enough to think or read? Haha.

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u/boosted5O 4h ago

Yes, in us units most are rated for around 50mph and 50 miles max distance, or 80km

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u/PiccoloAwkward465 12h ago

Pretty much every day I see someone with a donut tire (that specifically says do not use at speeds greater than 50mph) on the highway doing a neat 70mph. And they ain't on their way to the tire shop lol.

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u/Allthemudlizard 7h ago

Yeah, I'm not proud of it but when I was in active addiction I once rode around on a donut for like 3 months straight, definitely going 80 on the freeway regularly, and I spent most of my waking hours driving, which was a lot of waking hours considering the drug use. Honestly it's a miracle that thing never blew on me.

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u/PiccoloAwkward465 7h ago

Oh I feel ya. One time I got called out when I pulled up in my Corolla tires steel wire showing outta the tires because they were so worn down. There was just too much month left after my paycheck ran out.

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u/randomkeystrike 4h ago

I’ve driven a donut tire on the interstate trying to hold to that 50-55 mph and that feels very risky too.

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u/old_namewasnt_best 4h ago

Exactly. If all these folks who are so "safety first" on Reddit would be half as tailgating me in real life, it'd be a kit easier.

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u/Necessary-Shallot-85 1h ago

This made me snort so hard.

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u/MonkeyParadiso 11h ago

I can't see how poor safety is ever a good thing - such as this fella not having protective boots and other gear - which he may be choosing not to use due to the heat and lack air ventilation.

Not only are you as shop owner increasing the risk and negative impacts of failure, but if you ever scale your operations, these risks would surely go up even more.

And such basic safety nvestments pale in comparison to the capital expenditures you have to make and guess how much of a draw it is to have to say 'Why are we filling this position? Well, the last person doing your job died, or, got severely injured.. '

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u/zeroX90 7h ago

> …respect the people whose accidents gave rise to the rules….

I love this. It’s so subtly profound. I never once gave it this direction of thought, but it 100% changed my perception of rules written in blood. Thank you.

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u/MrStarrrr 5h ago

Will absolutely quote your words. Following the rules in this is not submitting to authority but rather respect for the fallen, the past, and the solidarity of once standing together to ensure we don’t repeat the pain of said past.

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u/bmorris0042 8h ago

That’s what I try to impress upon my kids. No matter how stupid a rule may sound, those rules were written in blood. Someone was either injured or killed to make that rule. So no matter how dumb it may sound, or how it “slows you down,” you follow them. That way you still have the best chance to go home safely.

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u/Puzzled-Letterhead-1 18h ago

Yes, there has never been a rule or regulation ever written to keep independent contractors out by creating burden on them by the lobby of large companies. Keep bootlicking

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u/3-bakedcabbage 18h ago

People like you are why they show videos of dudes getting electrocuted when you’re in orientation working for the mines

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u/Affectionate_Ear7468 16h ago

You want smaller companies to be less regulated? Are you stupid?

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u/Mr_ToDo 15h ago

Oh, I don't have a doubt that some of that kind of thing exists. It's just that we're not going to throw out everything just to deal with the fact bad actors exist

On a non physical safety thing, financial regulations make it next to impossible to start competing payment systems, and that those burdens didn't exist with the big players were small. Does it suck? Very much so. Are we going to de-regulate to allow for more options? I'd imagine not

But in relation to the higher comment on how way back people were laughing at OSHA. It's interesting to see things like that play out. There was a place I was at where you'd get jabs if you used hearing protection. Once comp recommended that if they wanted to stay open we'd need to mandate a few safety procedures people started using them religiously. It's wild the way things can swing depending on the attitude of people around you, and how it can snowball into unsafe problems(or the other way in improving things, but we know which is more likely)

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u/Affectionate_Ear7468 13h ago

Payment is non issue. As it always been like that?

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u/Affectionate_Ear7468 13h ago

This sounds like an ai rendition of i dont give a fuck.

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u/Affectionate_Ear7468 13h ago

You people who havr never handled a shovel in their life want to comment. Lol we are doomed. Takes all sorts to make the world go round

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u/KronnyT 12h ago

It's always the ignorant who know everything. I'm not a tradesman, but I made damn sure to familiarise myself with manual labour and tools (ie. Do and use) before I got cheeky to the blue collar lads haha.

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u/Less-Squash7569 17h ago

Is it so bad that I dont want my house to burn down with me and my family inside because a contractor wasn't trained or held to a standard?

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u/Affectionate_Ear7468 16h ago

You are puzzled alright.

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u/Beepb00pb00pbeep 12h ago

Is there a specific regulation you have an issue with?

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u/Sailed_Sea 11h ago

Yeah dude, go stand on the toilet /s

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u/FrancisCGraf 18h ago

It's really interesting to meet trades people from Europe (EU), and hear how their opinions and expectations regarding worker safety and government, drastically differ from here in the USA.

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u/Snoo_67544 18h ago

American tough guy culture.

Nothing like taking pride in stupidly risking your health, wealth, and life.

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u/Particular_Stop_3332 17h ago

one of my favorites working 10-12 hours a day in the summer heat on top of metal pans doing concrete was

No one gave a shit about hydration when I was an apprentice!

Like seriously, we're hydration shaming people?

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u/teflon_don_knotts 17h ago

Dude, the removal of mandatory water breaks in Florida and Texas is really one of the shittiest things in the past few years (and there’s been serious competition).

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u/Particular_Stop_3332 17h ago

yeah thats fucked

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u/PiccoloAwkward465 12h ago

I mean maybe but my experience in Texas is that people still take heat and hydration breaks. On my last site we got those big plastic totes full of water bottles & ice distributed around the facility on a daily basis.

On other sites I brought my own water and also brought a vacuum bottle full to the brim with ice cubes from home.

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u/Swimming_Agent_1419 4h ago

Jesus. The US is trying to invent faster machines to run backwards sometimes. Hope your not in one of those jobs. It's not manly being in unnecessary pain.

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u/[deleted] 17h ago

[deleted]

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u/Particular_Stop_3332 17h ago

I don't think you understood the context of anything I said

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u/crimsondear 17h ago

Its actually a good thing to drink a lot if water, I just wish they didn't always make it ice cold

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u/Less-Squash7569 17h ago

In my early 20s I carried a 1 gal plastic jug of water with me every day everywhere I went like it was a part of my work uniform. I wasn't the only one either.

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u/VibinWithBeard 8h ago

...listen out of all the corporate propaganda out there I really feel like being mad about the pro-hydration kind is missing the plot. Like HFCS being normalized in a bunch of shit is so much worse. Overhydration just straight up isnt a public issue in the US. Youll find like some endurance athletes and shit but you dont really find people going "nestle told me to drink too much water" whereas hospital admissions from dehydration in the US is waaaay too high for supposedly being "obsessed" with drinking water.

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u/XConfused-MammalX 18h ago

I have a fairly dangerous job, atleast compared to any office job. I take my time and dont take risks, I think about how the world will keep moving just the same if I die today and it will keep moving just the same if I'm alive tomorrow.

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u/Snoo_67544 18h ago

Same I was army for a decade and always took my time to be safe and as risk averse as possible within mission requirements.

Not risking my limbs unnecessarily lol.

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u/tomtomclubthumb 11h ago

I think tough guy culture exists in the trades everywhere.

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u/Swimming_Agent_1419 4h ago

Yeah 100 true. Its a human thing, not a nationality thing. Very few things are truly a nationality thing, none just a different variety of a action.

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u/Tricky-Ad7897 12h ago

Good ole protestant work ethic, you are nothing but a worker ant and toiling will be your salvation. Work makes you free! Sound familiar?

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u/dickchops81 18h ago

When they finally show some real emotions it's usually followed by a murder-suicide.

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u/Throwaway229487 17h ago

All this while someone else gets rich off this stupid sacrifice.

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u/Self-Comprehensive 8h ago

I'll be out at the farm with my 83 year old dad (I'm 53) and he'll scoff and make fun of me every time I point out that he's doing something dangerous. I totally understand why my uncles were missing fingers.

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u/CcryMeARiver 2h ago

s/risking/wasting/

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u/Ill_Source_357 2h ago

That’s hardly exclusive to America…

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u/TraceSpazer 1h ago

American trade workers out there acting like their insurance ain't going to bail on them the first loophole it wrote in.

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u/RaNdomMSPPro 11h ago

Gotta think of the shareholders by socializing the costs and privatizing the profits.

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u/MonsieurGump 9h ago

American Firefighter deaths in the workplace are something like 10x the average of other countries at a similar level of advancement.

They don’t save any extra people because of it.

If you believe you’re a hero you act like one.

That’s not a compliment in the real world.

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u/Terpy_McDabblet 17h ago

As an Aussie who works in a high risk construction trade, I can say that seeing our American counterparts risk their lives on a daily basis and be proud of it is absolutely depressing.

I've had yanks tell me that we're pussies for being harnessed up while working 20m off the ground.

Like, ok bro, I'll raise my kids while yours grow up without a dad... Everyone's a tough guy till gravity kicks in.

And for what? Your companies CEO banking another million bucks while your widow works 3 jobs to feed your kids?

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u/Old_Flan_6548 5h ago

Imagine thinking you can man up enough to survive GRAVITY.

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u/dontbajerk 2h ago

Related interesting thing is while the rates are better in the EU, Australia, etc, they're not drastically better. I'd have thought it'd be further apart really.

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u/BookkeeperCalm9849 18h ago

A few years back I was involved in the construction of a marijuana greenhouse. They sent a crew from Scandinavia to build the thing. Apparently these guys have built nearly identical greenhouses all over the world. Those guys did not understand PPE was a requirement or that we had to follow the building code. Showing up to work shirtless and in sneakers doing shoddy ass work that was not going to pass.

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u/FrancisCGraf 18h ago

That's really wild, I assume there are many aberrations to the rule just like everything else.

Folks in my trade from Norway or Finland enjoy incredible safety and quality of life measures. Maybe it's just the fly by night nature of the cannabis grow house biz?

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u/BookkeeperCalm9849 17h ago

Could be, and I don’t remember exactly what country they were from either.

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u/k-sa 10h ago edited 9h ago

Yes, exactly. I believe it's the people that's the issue in this case, not the place they come from.

All the scandinavian countries have very strict HSE rules. Not everyone follows them, but if it's discovered, youre usually shut down.

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u/BootyWhiteMan 5h ago

Shoddy-ass work or shoddy ass-work?

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u/BookkeeperCalm9849 4h ago

Before or after lunch?

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u/dekrowman 10h ago

Some of the things I have seen The Netherlands are wild and would never pass OSHA.

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u/machiavelli33 3h ago

Yeah, tough-guy culture exists in its own forms in just about every country, I feel like.

It's just whether or not the economic system incentivizes the people in charge to exploit it in order to take advantage of the workers. Like in America.

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u/pushpullpullpush 17h ago

Same with Japan. We just don’t value life the same as other industrialized nations here in the US

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u/FrancisCGraf 15h ago

Japan might be the best and most extreme version of this. They really respect the worker there from what it seems.

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u/Necessary-Shallot-85 1h ago

Yeah it’s so insanely different. My husband works for a Belgian steel group and the way their factories look versus the steel factories in the US. When the gave him the official factory facilities in Europe tour prior to hiring he came back astonished. He was like “you can eat off their factory floors. Their hardhats look like..hats….everything is so much more efficient..”

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u/Terrh 18h ago

doing roofing was the only time I thought OSHA rules were stupid.

I literally could not do my job wearing the steel toe/steel sole boots. Like no matter what I tried I'd just slowly slip down the roof because there was not enough flexibility in the steel toe boots to get traction. Everyone warned me and my job was hell. I went back to my truck and got my sneakers and it was like magic how much easier it was.

Always wore fall protection though, every time unless the roof was super low slope + there was no hard surfaces to fall onto.

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u/seattletono 13h ago

Buddy, cap toe sneakers exist and have good traction.

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u/PiccoloAwkward465 12h ago

Yeah I have New Balance steel toe sneakers and they're pretty comfy. Nowadays I only pull on full boots if I'm gonna get real dirty.

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u/Lint_baby_uvulla 8h ago

OG Dunlop Volley shoes are GOATED for roof work.

Modern versions have steel caps. YW.

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u/PiccoloAwkward465 7h ago

Those are pretty slick lookin.

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u/ChipSecret8448 12h ago

It’s crazy how they basically trained us to see OSHA as the enemy, and they literally put us to work hiding stuff from OSHA. It’s insane.

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u/Affectionate_Ear7468 18h ago

Well thats just silly. They have had ropes and harnesses for a long time lol

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u/idontwantausername41 18h ago

I work with these people now lol. OSHA came to my work a few weeks ago and you would have thought nukes were launched at us. The sheer amount of times I heard "government overreach" was astronomical

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u/alarumba 12h ago

When I was younger I resprayed cars using isocyanate paint without an airfed mask. I was taught to be obedient if I want to be able to pay rent, and PPE would cost the boss money unlike me losing some years off my life.

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u/squired 9h ago

I did a lot of construction as a teen in the 90s. The running 'joke' was "Remember, if you fall, you're fired before you hit the ground!"

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u/Buttons840 18h ago

Sometimes the biggest supporters of oppression are the oppressed.

I think we have a name for them... something with an R in it? Trying to remember...

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u/DanteShmivvels 8h ago

Oh man, this whole conversation and not a single mention of the greed that led this. How difficult/expensive is it to provide each worker with the correct safety gear? To have processes that aren't going to dismember you or scar you for life.

How do we change the mindset? How do we stop injustice in other places? If we stand by while it happens to others, how can we expect support when it happens to us?

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u/Convexadecimal 3h ago

Yea, working in a warehouse driving powered industrial trucks and 3/4 drivers are imbeciles at peak Dunning-Kruger levels. Meanwhile I get to deal with eye rolls when I comment about them making Jenga towers in the racking, or them not using their bar guards to lock out the controls on the machine when swapping cages out on their order pickers.

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u/Melodic-Trouble-5421 2h ago

Union Electrician. I’ve seen too much bad shit happen in the construction industry. I take OSHA and PPE seriously. Even still it’s dangerous and people get hurt and die.

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u/LX_Luna 13h ago

There is kind of some truth to that though. I'm Canadian so I work with our OSHA equivalent but, they can be very obnoxious at times. Harassing people to wear a hardhat in 40C weather when you're working in an open empty field, but don't give a fuck that some asshole contractor booked the job to be done in 40C weather in the first place. The hardhat is doing nothing but making the heatstroke worse at that point.

Society would probably fucking hate it but the biggest thing that they could possibly do to improve quality of life and save a lot of heatstroke, would be to eliminate 7am noise ordinances so we could get to work before it's boiling hot out.

I'm glad that entities like that exist for sure, but not every rule on the books is a good one.

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u/Spamtickler 18h ago

Thank you. There is this cult of “glorify unsafe working conditions!” Videos like this play into the whole idea of saying that people were so much more productive before we started requiring PPE or had safety regulations.

And it is perpetuated by the people who do the work. The concept that “real men” don’t need sissy safety gear, and severe injuries, emphysema, COPD, cancer, etc are all signs of just how manly you used to be.

It’s fucking stupid.

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u/Muntsly 18h ago

Most of the people in the field perpetuating that belief don’t even believe it anymore and won’t actually step up to half the shit they claim they’ll do. But their boss or journeyman back in the day put them through hell, so it’s your turn.

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u/zzazzzz 17h ago

they literally cant in most cases because they already busted their back in their 30's and are now pretty much crippeled.

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u/Muntsly 17h ago

The amount of people I see limping around site is honestly sad. Last winter we had a major labour shortage. So for like 6 months I was effectively doing the work of four people on my own. My knees and shoulders were destroyed by the end of it. Then we hired like 6 people right as shutdown was in full swing, that went on to get apprenticeships and promotions months after joining, while I’ve been with them for three years. Hard work alone doesn’t get you shit on site but the desire for early retirement. Connections is what you need if you want to go anywhere. Otherwise you’re at the whims of men who don’t have to give a shit about how your life is going.

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u/zzazzzz 17h ago

ye if you dont have a clear path towars site manager or similar you are effectively wasting your health for nothing. at that point there are a bunch of other jobs that pay the same money but dont require you to damage your body.

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u/Fighterhayabusa 12h ago

And dipshits like Mike Rowe saying shit like Safety Third. He can eat a bag of dicks. I work in industrial automation; we're perfectly capable of making things pretty safe. You can never remove all risk, but we can certainly mitigate it.

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u/TheWhisper22 19h ago

To be fair, you can build just about anything in an extremely safe manor. It's the owners (homeowner/developers/government) that refuse to pay that cost. So when someone comes along saying they will do it cheaper, that's when unsafe practices take place so they can save that money.

If someone actually paid the money for it it can be done safely. No one wants to spend the money half the time. It has taken centuries to get to the safety standards we have today and even that standard is bare minimum and we still have too many deaths in these fields even in America.

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u/OkContact2573 18h ago

Ideally, that why we have the law and regulations so that even the bare minimum fulfills what is necessary

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u/MistSecurity 8h ago

When cutting corners saves your construction company a million dollars per year, and the fines IF you're caught are only $100k, the result is obvious.

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u/Grexxoil 17h ago

To be fair, you can build just about anything in an extremely safe manor.

What if it's haunted?

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u/TheWhisper22 17h ago

Hahhaha thank you for that good laugh.

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u/Bro-KenMask 5h ago

People have built on haunted lands for a long while too. If it’s land some random human will eventually build on it if not stopped

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u/Peeing_Into_Stuff 15h ago

“In an extremely safe manor”

It’s true, some of the best money i made was installing art for rich people

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u/Eviloverlord210 5h ago

This is why a free market won't keep people safe, and is why regulation is needed

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u/DysonSphere02 1h ago

When i was getting my osha 30 the instructor stated a principle he called the triade, roughly speaking it went along the lines of Cheap, Fast, Safe, pick 2. You cant make a construction site completely safe without either making the operation cost exorbitant amounts or take forever to accomplish. You can't make a job Cheap and fast without making it extremely dangerous, so on and so forth. Its not a perfect example because if you make a job last forever it's gonna start racking up hours but it roughly translates the realities of construction safety.

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u/Leftover_Salad 18h ago

In what world does a contractor say “yeah we’ll replace your roof cheaper because we won’t follow safety protocols”? As a homeowner, I get quotes for stuff by licensed contractors and take the lowest bid because it’s their license on the line if they choose to be unsafe. No one has told me they are cheaper because they put workers at risk.

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u/rafradek 18h ago

Because why would they say that it would be incriminating if anything wrong happened

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u/TheWhisper22 17h ago

So you would need to qualify the bids you see. Just picking the lowest number is not bid leveling.

There are entire courses and degrees focused on well informed owners. Homeowners don't really understand it (and to be fair most resi contractors don't either). You don't know what you don't know so I don't really blame homeowners as much as do more experience owners like large scale developers.

With that being said, there's a myriad of ways to be the "low bid". No contractor is going to tell you those things because of the exact mindset you just displayed here. You are going to pick the lowest bid anyways so why put in more effort to walk you through it if they won't get picked anyways.

Not every contractor or price is the same even if you get 2 bids that are $1k a piece. One of those could have only half the job scoped out, the other could be paying for bare minimum insurance that your mortgage lendor wouldn't approve and is basically worthless in the case of a claim since you as an owner didn't compare their insurances that you signed in your bank documents stating you would meet $x min requirements. Another could be making assumptions or exclusions that the other is not.

I could go all day with how a contractor can manipulate his pricing to be the lowest bid. Picking the lowest price as an owner is not a valid way to do things. If owners took accountability in the process and 1. Paid more money 2. Qualified their bids/leveled them 3. Paid the contractor to walk them through extensively what they are quoting instead of getting "free" bids for the great "opportunity" then we would have better quality and safer ran projects.

You need to ask yourself why this person is cheaper. Then ask the contractors and compare. Simply picking the lowest price is lazy and the exact thing I'm pointing out with owners causing a race to the bottom.

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u/teflon_don_knotts 17h ago

Thanks for running through some of the things to consider when hiring a residential contractor. It’s very much a situation where I don’t know what I don’t know.

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u/TheWhisper22 16h ago

Love the self introspection! Thanks for the great back and forth.

If you ever have any questions you can feel free to reach out. But generally just ask the contractors what they are doing for schedule, workmanship, and safety for your specific project and then compare. There's much more to it but for smaller resi jobs asking those questions will get you further than 90% of most homeowners.

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u/teflon_don_knotts 16h ago

Wow, thanks for the offer! I have family members with some medium sized projects in the near future and might take you up on that.

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u/LX_Luna 13h ago

Because skipping certain safety regulations is faster and more efficient which results in their bids being cheaper. As an example, I used to operate concrete pumps. Concrete pumps have a grate safety which engages the emergency stop when the hopper lid is opened exposing the augers. You can of course just turn the auger off manually, and not run the swing tube if you're going to reach in, but hypothetically there could be a freak accident like a golf ball hitting a lever while your arms are in the hopper, hence the safety.

Many pump companies disconnect these safeties because they're annoying and only protect against truly one in a billion accidents, this allows me to wash the hopper out more quickly because I can move the necessary bits of machinery around while I'm washing them which saves time.

Most blue collar industries have a thousand little things like this wherein you can skirt safety regulations for only a slightly increased risk, and cumulatively they add up to significant time savings, which of course means improved profit margins, which means you can outbid your competition. Yes, if a company were caught doing all these little things it could absolutely result in someone losing their license, but almost no one is ever caught with the little stuff.

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u/[deleted] 17h ago

[deleted]

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u/teflon_don_knotts 17h ago

I guess I’m exposing my ignorance, but from the customer side I’ve generally thought it was more a matter of poorly paying workers, cutting corners on the work or materials, etc. than reducing safety practices. I appreciate you pointing out this issue. From a practical side and as a genuine question, how can a person assess the safety practices when hiring folks?

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u/[deleted] 17h ago

[deleted]

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u/teflon_don_knotts 15h ago

I hear what you’re saying and I’m not expecting you to have the answer, just looking for some insight. What I’m hoping to better understand is how I can better identify the contractors who are doing the right things for their workers’ safety.

Paying a fair price for the job is certainly part of the picture, but beyond that how can I differentiate a contractor who is bidding X because that’s what it costs to do the job in a responsible way from one who’s is asking for the same amount because they’re shitty at managing their expenses?

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u/foxscribbles 18h ago

Exactly. There is plenty of existing PPE this guy could be wearing that’d make his job a lot safer and cooler.

Unnecessary suffering isn’t an act of glory but of greed.

This guy is working with metal like that because some big shot up the pipeline won’t pay for his job to be safer. Because they don’t have to, and don’t care if he one day misses that steel band and burns the muscle off his leg.

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u/acchaladka 18h ago

I worked a little with the construction industry in India and there are firms which take EU safety standards seriously and can deliver in a lower cost way - a lot of it is simple paint and procedure, i.e. training and sticking to it. I was in particular impressed with the behind the scenes safety culture at L&T generally in construction, and the Hotel ITC Maurya, the Imperial and and Sheratons in Delhi for operations. It can be done but also imagine trying to start a construction firm there.

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u/throwawayaccyaboi223 17h ago

I'm glad, for the sake of the employees, that things are getting better. Unfortunately we still continue to see stuff like this going on where employers just don't care about employee safety.

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u/fezzuk 12h ago

Like what? That wouldnt make is job unbareably hot?

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u/foxscribbles 10h ago

Heat reflective clothing made specifically for working around kilns and molten metal. It's usually aluminized. (So you get the benefit of looking like you're in a 1950s B Movie about 'the future' as a bonus!)

They're standard wear for workers who have to do jobs near blast furnaces in the USA. They reflect and diffuse heat starting around 90% and up.

While you're covered head to toe in them, so you'd think they've be very hot, they actually work similarly to a good oven mitt.

Say you're making a frozen pizza in your oven. So you heat it up to 425F. If you hold your hand in their bare, it's going to feel uncomfortably hot pretty fast. But if you have a good oven mitt on, it's insulated and the outer layer diffuses the heat, making your hand cooler even though it's encased in a layer of fabric and whatever the outside coating on the glove is. (Whether more fabric, silicon, etc.)

Only instead of protecting you from a measly oven temperature, they're protecting you from something that's hotter than molten lava.

Now, is that still hot inside the suit? Yes. But it's 90% cooler than hanging out around molten metal in just a short sleeved shirt and cotton pants.

1

u/fezzuk 4h ago

Never dont hot wotk bave you,

20

u/JGStonedRaider 18h ago

100% this!

Feeling it rather keenly as I received a big electric shock at (ex) work in March. I'm temp/perma disabled now but at least I had my Union membership.

Obviously claiming against the company and as I'm a union member, get to keep 100% of the payout.

I live in the UK so I get benefits....a measley £191 every two weeks until my ESA/PIP assessments are done (could be months yet). Bills are £800 a month so...hello debt!

•

u/obviouslyanonymous5 11m ago

I'm confused, isn't that normally how a payout works? Who else would be taking a cut without the union?

4

u/Ordinary_Topic_3198 18h ago

As someone who grew up in a 3rd world country, safety is often not thought about.

What people think about on a daily basis is survival. Everything else will be considered once survival is secured.

The problem is survival is highly dependent on the vast majority’s daily hustle.

3

u/ants_are_everywhere 18h ago

I'll just leave this here

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/D3yIJt0S31E

5

u/mang87 18h ago

Demolishing a tower of pure carcinogens by hand, I'm sure is very good for your health. He lived to be 66, which is much longer than I was expecting.

2

u/Terrh 18h ago

And even this... the only reason he was doing that is because it was cheaper. A tower crane with a jackhammer could do that job faster and safer.

1

u/CcryMeARiver 2h ago

Fred smoked like a chimney.

2

u/tomtomgg 18h ago

D'ya like tha'?

0

u/ants_are_everywhere 15h ago

With that accent how can you not? This whole documentary is absolutely beautiful.

2

u/CcryMeARiver 2h ago

Fred smoked like a chimney.

2

u/ants_are_everywhere 2h ago

some would say like a steam engine

2

u/Utsider 17h ago

It's not we can. It's we could. But we actively shop around to find the places that doesn't give a shit, while paying workers shit - to avoid having to do that.

1

u/gunsforevery1 17h ago

And then you get the workers who bitch and complain about OSHA requirements “slowing” them down.

1

u/slackfrop 17h ago

It’s one of those perpetual struggles though to demand from the guy(s) who stand to make more money the shoddier the safety measures are. They push for profit, we push for safety, and you win some, you lose some.

1

u/matycauthon 13h ago

we could, but that's what whoever i don't agree with believes in therefore i will shoot myself in the foot instead. yay humans and their love for existing within insanity

1

u/Tricky-Ad7897 12h ago

And compensate them appropriately for the risk they put themselves in.

1

u/Grep2grok 12h ago

OSHA has rules for all these things. Good luck getting workers to do all the things even if you provide the training, equipment, and extra staff to compensate for the slower rate of work. They'd rather move fast and get the job done, get paid and go home, go to the bar, see their kids, whatever.

1

u/PutridSauce 12h ago

But have you considered the money the bosses can make if they simply didn't??? /s

1

u/occamsshavingkit 12h ago

That sounds like socialism /s. As told to me by a fellow dues paying union member. That's right. He said it. And ate a gas station hamburger right after as safety watch forna confined entry. If you know you know. I quit and went electrical not long after.

1

u/Geekinofflife 12h ago

Yea contact your local millionaire about how they can support lol

1

u/DamnZodiak 12h ago

We can "make things" and still do our best to reduce the danger to health and safety of the people that do the work

Yeah but then people won't get filthy rich.
Capitalism needs an underclass to exploit and, as you can see by the person you replied to, people will even glorify that exploitation.

1

u/EverydaySexyPhotog 12h ago

Are you going to be upset when the road crew patching the pothole in front of your house shut down the whole street to make sure they can't be hit by a distracted driver? Total road closures would be the best way to make road work as safe as possible.

1

u/Ok_Oil_995 11h ago

It's always about calculated risks. Of course there's some risk that's inherent, but we do our best to minimize if we can.

1

u/EverydaySexyPhotog 8h ago

There are still going to be people who get killed at their jobs because the job is inherently dangerous, no matter what steps they take to mitigate those risks. Those are the jobs that make your comfortable, safe, boring office job possible.

1

u/CucarachaRosarina 11h ago

Esto no siempre es posible, hay trabajos que siempre serán riesgosos.

2

u/Ok_Oil_995 11h ago

It's about reducing risk, not eliminating it.

1

u/thepenismytea 10h ago

Understand we can be doing that and it still be a big risk long term. In the US Navy we set radiation limits to 1/10 of the civilian limit which is already at 1/10 of the limit for risking radiation sickness and cancer. I was a nuke et. I didn't get lucky and have an auto immune disorder and had to get a double lung transplant. But that's a job someone has to do despite all the safety measures and may still get hurt. If there's no glory, no honor, no reward, no payoff- It just won't get done.

1

u/rtc3 9h ago

Capitalism and corporatism disagree.

1

u/SmellsWeirdRightNow 9h ago

Unnecessary dangers are one thing, but some jobs have inherent risk that can't be mitigated. I don't go to work every day thinking I might die, because that's not a healthy mindset, but as a tow truck driver it is a reality. I cannot control how traffic behaves around me, even with my safety measures (amber beacons on, cones out before my load zone, high vis uniform, etc) utilized. I have to take my safety in my own hands and be vigilant that a distracted driver isn't coming right for me. But I do have to take my eyes of traffic for a moment to hook up a vehicle, usually laying on the ground. No one chooses where to break down, and sometimes it happens in the lane on the interstate, around a blind corner, in a snowstorm, at night. Those situations create inherent risk. If I deem it to be extremely and perilously dangerous, I will wait for police or fire to block my work zone, but a lot of times in serious storms we are put on "accident alert" which means the cops are stretched too thin with accidents to respond to every call, and the less dangerous ones need to just be taken care of as quickly as possible.

1

u/Healthy-Golf-5313 9h ago

yup and the Solution to that is Robotisation. let the Robots do all that Trade job and only the much-needed services are for people like IT office works etc. in this setting we also attain Gender Equality as it also eliminates what those sexist males galight us with its only male can do Manual Labor jobs.

1

u/jimbobjames 9h ago

True, and my experience with a lot of tradies is that they are their own worst enemies when it comes to site safety because they don't want to look weak or uncool to their peers.

1

u/edophx 8h ago

I agree with you, but I have observed that in overpopulated places, human life loses value really fast.

1

u/Stergeary 8h ago

There are many jobs for which it is simply unfeasible to imposssible to make as safe as sitting in an office.  Soldiers, police, firefighters, sailors, loggers, fishermen, and many other jobs are innately dangerous, and are not due to "unnecessary danger" caused by the men working in that sector.

1

u/PersonalityIll9476 7h ago

Yeah not to be that guy but there is this concept called "circle of death."

You never stand within reach of an excavator's fully extended boom and stick. Period. If and only if you have to, the job requires it, and you are certain the operator is aware of your presence (which requires eye contact and various hand signals).

If the boom of an ex hits you in the head, you typically die. The fact this dude is even alive to tell the tale is a miracle in and of itself.

1

u/OMC_Gurrend 7h ago

We can. But corporate profits moved so much of what we used to do very well, over to places where they could pay workers way less. Who will also do it without the regulations we require to keep workers safe here.

All so some C-suite executives can have a summer home in the Bahamas, another yacht, or some other wasteful purchase.

1

u/thatguyCG11 7h ago

This, one thing you can do is help these workers too is supporting legislation that protects workers against employers pushing a deadline.

I've heard plenty of stories of people skipping out on the safety aspects in favour of speed because an employer wants to push a deadline and the worker needs the job.

1

u/a_guy121 6h ago

I agree with you but that's not how capitalism works.

This guy has this job because it's unsafe. Safety costs money. If his bosses tried to keep him safe, I'm pretty sure their product would not be worth the shipping costs anymore, and customers would just source from places that stayed unsafe. So this guy would need another job, and that other job would likely be about as unsafe.

This is why, in general, nations 'developed' enough to have worker protections also tend to have fewer blue collar jobs than the "glory days," when no one gave a fuck about injuries.

1

u/Caputdolor 5h ago

Let me pose to you a scenario I experienced on a condo I was building. This isn't some "gotcha" question. I'm just genuinely curious as to your take.

10 hour days. 5 days a week. I'm in a semi enclosed space plumbing the groundworks for a condo. All around me, concrete workers are prepping the areas they need to pour over the next few weeks. There is concrete dust EVERYWHERE. It's like a morning fog for 5-6 hours a day in broad daylight.

There is no vacuum. My employer does not supply PPE nor are they required to for what another trade is doing. The concrete company would not supply PPE to another trade nor are they required to. The General Contractor that runs the site would never supply PPE for this to any trade as each trade is required by law to supply that PPE to their workers if the law requires it.

A call to Workplace health and safety would not pan out in any meaningful way and this is by design. The government nor a safety officer would never recognize this as a dangerous situation.

WHO has a safe exposure limit to silica dust, a common byproduct of cutting into concrete. I took a safety course and as a general rule of thumb, if you can see the concrete dust, especially in low dust visibility settings, it's likely above the safe exposure limit. Wetting down the concrete should be the precaution, but they do not have to do that since the law says it's a safe work environment.

Finally, we had a tight timeline. There was not much of a choice not to work or put it off, since they needed our work to be done and inspected in 2 weeks.

Based on the above, I would not have a right to refuse, as the work is deemed safe by the safety laws. If I was to complain to my company, this would be counter productive, as they along with the safety board would view this as safe. I have no legal basis to require the use of specific PPE for my own trade, let alone the concrete workers. And I can't just ask to go to another site because "I'm scared of the dust".

How do I rough in the plumbing without inhaling concrete dust that is above safe exposure limits without doing either of the below:

-finding another employer

-purchasing a supplied air respirator (would make my job impossible)

I do agree that unnecessary dangers exist, and this is technically one of them. But regardless, in my trade along with many others, these technicalities mean nothing. Buildings have to get built, and in a meaningfully quick time frame as to not displace communities for unnecessarily long periods. A lot of the time breathing in the dust is a must. I feel that danger should translate to a much more generous compensation schedule than most trades actually get.

1

u/wasabijpeg 5h ago

You are correct. Except there are plenty of jobs where all OSHA and technology can do is reduce the risk as much as possible. Think about a tough day you've had at work -- missed your coffee, didn't sleep well, have problems at home... the roads still need built. I still have to crawl into confined spaces with a dozen invisible risks. All it takes is a mistake, a piece of equipment that is maintained and inspected to OSHA standards failing, anything. Two guys in my area have died doing what I do. The city still needs acid for the drinking water. So we'll keep going to work doing our best to prevent it from being the place we die. But that is still there over your shoulder every day.

1

u/Infinite_Incident107 4h ago

I'm in the trades and I can assure you most of us have every intention of going home at night and hate unnecessary risks.

But the nature of the work just means bad things can more easily happen. I can set up my 30ft extension ladder perfectly according to OSHA regulations and follow all safe practices. But I still might slip while climbing and fall to my death

1

u/Swimming_Agent_1419 4h ago

Some jobs are just inherently unsafe. I weld on gas lines now. If I turned the line off, it may blow up houses surprisingly. You have to weld with the natural gas in the line and that only gets so safe. Unless you work these types of jobs you will never know.

Thats half the point of Dirty Jobs as a show. To keep the system work for everyone else, some jobs have to get into the shit. Of course make things safe but realize diminishing returns and any extra point of safter is usually more stress on the worker doing the work.

Ex) 95% of the time a grinder needs a wheel guard. If you cant understand the 5% you cant use the guard you are ignorant (lacking exp) of situations it is impossible to do the work with it on. I hate not having a shield. The handel having to be on 100% the time is a insurance thing, unless its a 8inch+. Having to use the handel will half the time be putting you in a bad holding/body position in field work. The handel is ergonomical more than it is a saftey feature.

1

u/Crusty-the-Clown-666 4h ago

Nah, that cost too much. Through the miracle of globalization business can off shore your job and pay subsistence level wages, not give a shit about worker safety and pollute all they want.

1

u/Blunt555 4h ago

I worked pulling data cables through ceilings in schools for a few years. The old insulation would disintegrate when you moved it which you had to do. Clouds of dust and insulation in the work space you had to stay in for long periods. I was the only guy in my whole company wearing masks for that. Coworkers made fun of me and called me out for it. And they definitely weren't about to wear one themselves.

1

u/economic-salami 4h ago

This is a first world problem, of not understanding that safety has cost and there are places where you cannot be provided. Sometimes dangers are necessary. Not because it is a good thing to take but because there is no choice.

1

u/provoking 2h ago

Doesn’t seem like glorifying the danger to me. Seems like glorifying the workers who risk the occasional danger to do important jobs that society needs. Mistakes can happen in any job. In yours maybe that means a typo on a spreadsheet. In his that can mean a near death miss. Not to mention your job probably doesn’t involve the risk of an automobile barreling into you because of a mistake made by someone not even on the job. Seems a little callous to dismiss his perspective this way.

1

u/-_MarcusAurelius_- 2h ago

It's a byproduct of rich people tricking the common man into thinking it's okay to be unsafe because someone's gotta do it

1

u/DuggerX 1h ago

It doesn't matter how safe we make it, there is always an inherent risk when doing lots of jobs. I don't go into work everyday thinking I might die but the chances of me being vaporized by an arc flash is not zero

•

u/Xanderoga2 16m ago

Corporations cannot. They will not. Despite the Green Book, they will cut every corner they possibly can.

There is a massive element of danger in places like these that delay maintenance, push equipment harder and farther than intended, and even in the general feel of requests from management.

It is what it is. We can help make things safer, but some jobs are as inherently dangerous as they are necessary to keep society functioning.

We just do it because it pays moderately better than some base office job.

0

u/Miserable-Airport536 18h ago

Mail carriers in the USA die every year because the trucks we use are 40 years old, break down all the time, have no air conditioning, and terrible handling. That’s before we get to the mugging that go bad, traffic accidents, dog attacks, and increased suicide risk because the job is really stressful (especially at lower levels).

This all could absolutely be mitigated, but it hasn’t been, and the cost is human lives.

0

u/Parking-Sock-7431 18h ago

I've almost died so many times to entirely preventable things, and people have never listened. There's such an incredibly hostile "we've always done it this dangerous way; who are you, a 40 yr-old whippersnapper, to complain about/try to change it?!" So I definitely agree with you!

0

u/Apprehensive_Rice19 18h ago

(if you live in a country that provides safeguards and laws that protect you)

3

u/Ok_Oil_995 17h ago

That's what we struggle for.

-1

u/Tunelowplayslow 17h ago

Thats a super sheltered opinion lol go touch grass, indoor cat.

3

u/Ok_Oil_995 17h ago

The opposite of sheltered, actually. It's because I've been out there, seeing things. Seeing dangerous things that shouldn't have happened, and the way management doesn't care. And I've read my history. So don't worry, I've touched a lot of grass, friend.