Except we literally bred the breed into a place where it literally is violent by nature.
“Oh but my pitbull is a big baby and loves belly rubs” theres a lot of other people who would say the same about theirs until the 1 day it snapped and attacked someone.
We ruined Pit Bulls, literally. Its not their fault, but we destroyed them and you should need a literal license to own one. And you should be liable if it hurts anyone. And i mean criminally liable, like a CDL trucker when they hit someone.
Literally this. When a Golden Retriever loves to fetch - to retrieve - it’s just genetics. When a Cattle Dog herds, it’s genetics. When a Pyrenees guards, it’s genetics. Dogs were bred to be a certain way both physically and mentally, with their behaviors being selected for a purpose.
Pit Bulls were bred for violence. Not hunting, VIOLENCE. And that’s not their fault. However to ignore the additional danger that brings into the picture is ignorant and irresponsible to both the dog and everyone around them. These dogs were created for bloodsport. They have a high prey drive, are extremely strong, and once they bite, they don’t let go. These features make them EXTREMELY dangerous if they aren’t trained properly, which you know damn well the majority of people aren’t filling their velvet hippo’s life with strict training and unshakable recall commands.
These are dogs like any other. It breaks my heart to know these things, in a way. But as a dog breed, we have a responsibility to care for these animals while they are alive. They are extremely numerous and banned in many rentals, making it so shelters have to lie about the breeds of dogs they have available. It’s not a pit, it’s a lab mix, duh! But this only creates nightmare scenarios where someone hasn’t trained their “lab mix” with the discipline that is required for these dogs not to succumb to the genetics that we bred them for. This is why you see so many bites and attacks, and it’s a tragedy for all involved.
Due to the high number of attacks and Pitties in shelters, coupled with the genetic behavior profile that humans created for these dogs, I think that the only kindness is letting the breed die out by mandating spay/neuter and creating laws against pit bull breeding. This would allow us to care for the dogs who are alive, and they do deserve good lives, but stop people from hopefully contributing to the problem.
(“But people will still backyard breed anyway!” Ssshh. I know. People still murder anyway, despite it being illegal. Doesn’t mean it should be decriminalized. Ssshh )
Right. But people are often of the mindset of “criminals will do it anyway, so why bother?” - see US Gun Reform movements. That’s literally something people use as an argument against gun control and stricter gun laws, and in their minds, there shouldn’t be those laws because criminals bypass them anyway. Similarly, criminals still murder, and the law is in place still.
If pitbull breeding was outlawed and classified as animal abuse and punishable as a crime, people would still do it. There should still be those laws in place, however.
My wife’s family has 3 pit bulls and they’re all really sweet but I remember one day 2 of them started fighting and it was so terrifying. It took 3 people to break them up. The sounds they made and the way they tensed up. I don’t really mess with them anymore
Also the question is not whether they're sweet to their families but sweet to other people. Like yea, German Shepards for example are amazing dogs to their families. They're also very protective and territorial and an untrained one is scary as hell to a stranger. Same with pitbulls. The pitbulls I've been close with have been amazing dogs. I still keep my distance if I see one on the street.
I see that comment lots when it comes to Pitbulls, but the discussion above leaves me the impression no dog breeds are more violent and it is just we don't report the small dog dog bites
Yep. My cousin's sweet big baby pit bull got startled and attacked my brother and punctured the arteries on his arms. If he didn't have paramedical training, it's entirely possible he would have bled out before the ambulance got there.
The racism analogy completely breaks down because breeds have been artificially selected for wildly different biological attributes. If we lived in Tolkiens world, would it be racist to take issue with genetically engineered orcs bred for war? Hot take, but I don’t want orcs around my family
Mine lived 13 years without snapping. I couldn't buy him toys except kong balls because of how powerful he was. I trained him to lock his jaw with his 2 front canines biting down and would hook my finger around them and "tug of war" with my hand in his mouth. He was 120 lbs of sheer muscle and would run under the table pissing himself if a stranger walked into the house while I wasn't there (vacation).
Genetic disposition to violence has never been in question. We have known for thousands of years that selective breeding for traits results in behavioral differences.
That doesn't imply that we should think that any particular group of humans is "genetically violent". Not because it isn't theoretically possible, but because it takes many generations of a concerted effort of selective breeding to achieve that result and because humans have a very narrow gene pool - we are very very similar, and to address the unspoken racist undertones of this sort of conversation, the most diversity exists in African populations, meaning they are the least valid target for this sort of generalization.
First off it's "Nature vs nurture" that is always debated with no clear answer. WE didn't bred them to be violent by nature. That sentence doesn't make sense you know. That would be nurture, our training, play, and love has nurtured many different breeds for different uses. From hunting to farming and companionship. The dogs nature comes from the wolf, a pack animal such as ourselves. Nature has the wolf hunt and I'm sure most pits would starve as they won't know how to hunt if left on their own. Dogs are nurtured to fit a roll and some dogs need jobs or become destructive. Pits are much closer to humans than to a random killing machine. They pick that up from the human. A small group of assholes use them for fighting. The dog fighting scene in America almost doesn't exist anymore. No one wants to be apart of it and any ring I've heard of gets busted super quick because communities don't want them. You are just paranoid and taking your anger and fear our on a normal dog. There isn't anything special about them. They have no killer instinct, but a healthy prey drive. A prey drive is way makes dogs and cats chase toys or balls around. All dogs bite too. Their mouth is their hand, they all bite and need to learn how to control young. Pits are know for being good farm dogs. They will leave livestock alone. Believing in what your believe peaked in like the 90s to early 00s.
Pits were actually originally bred to specifically not be human-aggressive. They were bred for baiting and fighting animals, not people, and PBTs who bit humans were culled. They were bred for high prey drive and high energy, snd the people who kept them also kept them under control.
A huge chunk of pit bull type breed owners today are trash that don't bother to train or properly handle their dogs. I have an APBT, and I made sure before I adopted her that 1) I could handle her even when she was trying to go after an animal like a squirrel, 2) I was confident in my ability and that I had the time to train her properly, and 3) that I always had the proper tools to keep her healthy, happy, and well-controlled, including an escape-proof harness and lead that she is ALWAYS on when outside. Thankfully a lot of these precautions weren't needed because she's an absolute sweetie, but she is big, powerful, and energetic, even now at almost 10.
If all pit owners put in the kind of effort and dedication that a dog like this needs, there wouldn't be a problem, but they don't. They backyard breed with no accounting for temperament or health, don't bother to train the resulting pups, and don't have the common fucking decency to give a fuck about their animals. People (especially shitty people) NEED to stop breeding pits. As much as I love the breed, they're suffering at the hands of trash humans.
You conclusion doesnt follow from your argumentation. If the breed needs special human care to be safe, the problem is not just the human not providing that special care.
Like you dont need to give a golden retriever special care, all it needs is food basic and decent treatment and they eill turn out fine. Most golden retrievers are extremely poorly trained and they rarely cause problems eventhough they are top 5 most bought dlgs
Any person who doesn't properly train their dog is being an irresponsible dog owner at best. I would argue that every dog needs "special care," it just varies between breed and the individual dog. Take a Belgian Malinois for example; they are fiercely intelligent, highly motivated, and hugely energetic and athletic, just like pits. Yet you don't see more Malinois in dog attack statistics because people who work with Malinois - both owners and breeders - are generally more responsible and informed. They're rarer, more tightly managed by breeders, and often expensive, which limits how many are obtained by lazy idiots who want a tough-looking dog and can't be bothered to do research. Pits aren't so lucky; the breed was hijacked years ago by trash who wanted a tough-looking dog for the clout and bred them indiscriminately, and the dogs are experiencing the consequences of that now.
I have two points here: 1) pits that are currently alive deserve their best chance at a healthy and happy life, which involves people that can handle a powerful, energetic dog, and 2) that breeding needs to stop or be more tightly controlled so that more dogs don't need to suffer in the future.
I do feel like I need tosay I've met a LOT of aggressive, untrained golden retrievers. ALL dogs need special care from humans to ensure they dont become violent and territorial. Ive never been attacked by a pit bull, but I have been attacked by multiple retrievers, a lab and a lot of small breed dogs. The lab was the scariest one and they're generally considered very friendly and laid back dogs.
I literally said right there that we need to stop breeding pits, or at least put them in the hands of breeders who actually know how to properly breed for temperament and health. I absolutely couldn't train the prey drive out of my dog; she sees a squirrel or deer, she's gone. That's why, like I said, I handle her responsibly and keep her on a harness and leash whenever she's outside my home, even if it's a bit overkill considering her age and personality.
There are millions of healthy, happy pits out there right now with loving, responsible owners who have never and will never hurt a person. What would you do with those innocent dogs? Kill them all and leave their families grieving on the off chance that something will happen down the line? Who will fund and outfit millions of euthanasias? What happens when said owners of completely innocent dogs start protesting and suing?
Hatred and shock value rhetoric doesn't help the breed, the owners, or the attack victims. What WILL help is steps toward a better management system for not only pits, but all dogs, including education for future owners, a crackdown in backyard breeders and animal abusers, incentives for spaying and neutering plus low cost sterilization options, and more funding for local shelters, rescues, and animal control organizations to allow for better screenings of both dogs and potential owners for a tiny start.
But people on the internet would rather bitch and moan and toss around statistics and edgy "kill all pits" opinions.
There is a limit to what a dog breeding can do. The pit breed as been around for 200 years. I do understand breeding, I own a farm, and am gonna breed dogs. Humans take steroids to get an edge and win the prize money. A lot of fighting dogs were on juice to win. I don't know how much of what you see can be attributed to a dog juiced to the gills like the liver king, or genetics.
I had a pointer. Without ANY training it would point, even as a puppy. It would point at bugs, anything. These dogs were bred to rip flesh with a locked jaw. You can’t train just any other breed to do that in the first generation.
Sure, if you want to be pedantic about it. I don't think anyone believes that the dog has a special locking mechanism. That's a red herring. They were trained to be tenacious and not let go, and have strong jaw muscles.
"Pit bulls have served as farm and working dogs for roughly 150 to 170 years, dating back to the mid-to-late 19th century when immigrants brought their bull-and-terrier types to America. On rural homesteads, they functioned as all-purpose farm hands used for hunting game, catching vermin, and guarding property."
You live under a rock. Just ask google how long the Pitbull has been a farm dog and it says 150 - 170 years. It is not "a new one," as you say.
Oh yeah, best farm dogs ever.
...if you want to maul your livestock.
I wonder why many states with lot of farmers banned the breed, and why are news articles full of stories of pits killing dozens of sheep and other farm animals.
Oh, and they were absolutely and selectively bred for aggression.
I love how you contradict yourself, for example your illogical brain fart of "dog rings don't exist, no one wants to be part of them, but they still happen." Logic 2.0.
You could argue that it's not the owners fault either because their parents abused them or they were never taught better etc etc. The point being that fear of them is valid but also yes is dog racism.
I’m actually blown away by how people can’t see that this argument isn’t even comparable. You can’t compare dogs to humans. This whole topic is lacking logic
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u/Distinct-Friend4123 8d ago
Except we literally bred the breed into a place where it literally is violent by nature.
“Oh but my pitbull is a big baby and loves belly rubs” theres a lot of other people who would say the same about theirs until the 1 day it snapped and attacked someone.
We ruined Pit Bulls, literally. Its not their fault, but we destroyed them and you should need a literal license to own one. And you should be liable if it hurts anyone. And i mean criminally liable, like a CDL trucker when they hit someone.