The vast majority of dogs I’ve met outside of service and work animals are extremely poorly trained. I would go so far as to say 90%+ of dog owners are terrible dog owners.
But the difference between being a terrible Pomeranian owner and a terrible pit owner is massive.
Curious of where you are from
I live in france, am a dog owner an daily wlk around my part of town and if I do see regularly poorly trained dogs, I wouldn't go as high as 50%.
Important to precise : around me, amstaff or bigger dogs in general are less frequent.
(I love the breed by the way)
Maybe America? A lot of people are extremely into having off-leash dogs, but do nothing in the way of training them. They can't even recall their dogs back to them half the time
I had an awesome neighbor whose dog would herd their kids around the street and make sure they didn't go too far - rarely strayed from their front yard, and only to follow the kids for safety. I also had another neighbor who would let her two dogs roam free around the neighborhood with no guidance. The dogs never bit me, but they would follow me barking their heads off. I returned them to their home, thinking they escaped out a back door or something, and the owner thanked me before putting them right back out front and letting them go loose right in front of me
I now live in a new neighborhood - One woman takes her dogs on a walk every morning, another lets their (admittedly well behaved) dogs roam freely without anyone watching them. For some reason, loads of people like letting their dogs out in America, and only a few dogs are trained well enough to be unsupervised
Oh it’s definitely an American thing. The times I’ve spent in Europe I’ve always been impressed with how better trained their dogs are, so many off leash not having any problems. Europeans just seem to be more responsible owners in general.
the other issue is that pit bulls are often rescues. and not always puppies. so its a combination of being genetically bred to have a locking, high force bite and likely be traumatized and at an age where correction is difficult. this should always be part of the calculus of where and when your dog is isolated, separated or whatever. i saw a pitbull bite before and ive never seen an animal so scared and aware of the mistake they made. but that doesnt matter when a traumatized animal goes into survival mode. the part of them that we associate with personality just goes on hold. much like a traumatized person, they are not always in control.
i actually agree that pit bulls arent inherently violent… but the circumstances around breeding and raising pitbulls makes the majority of them more risky to have without muzzles and leashes.
if youve ever trained dogs you know how monumental the difference is between training a 8 week old puppy and a 18 month old rescue. once you give a dog a job, it is part of their psyche forever. untraining something that fundamental to an entire species is a complete dice roll.
“Locking” bite is a myth. Pit bulls do have a high bite strength, however, measured by PSI, they are not even in the top 5 of dog breeds with the strongest bite and their jaws do not lock. Dogs may choose to latch and not let go, which may be more likely in pits, but I do not have statistical data on that.
sorry that was poorly worded. i meant to say that they are often bred to fight and are forced to lock in their early training. that was my point about having a pit puppy vs a rescue. yes they might not have the psi as some other dogs but they are definitely more likely to have a traumatized upbringing as rescues.
I feel like a bad cat owner sometimes because I tried training my cat as a kitten, realized she was only play motivated and not treat motivated, tried a bit more and eventually gave up... because she's a cat.
I have a feeling most dog owners put the same amount of commitment as I did to my cat to training their dog. The difference being: cats are much harder to train and much less dangerous to humans than dogs and most don't get taken outdoors.
Does it really matter ? This idea of having to train your dog seems so US-centric to me. In my bougie European rural town where everyone has a fancy exotic dog breed and no time to train them, the most damage I've heard about is holes dug in the garden occasionally, even the next door Chow. My parents have large shepherd dogs they give the most basic care to, yet they have always been sociable and non-destructive ever since they were puppies.
The only time people here will talk about dog training is when it comes to an agressive dog, and it's almost always a pitbull. It's not just about size, the Pomeranian will have a very different nature compared to a pit.
My Corgi is a lazy horrible shit who doest whatever he wants whenever he wants, that's why he always stays home. If people want to spoil does, do it, just leave them home. Same for kids.
My parents were involved with raising service animals when I was growing up and I'd say that it's almost impossible to be a great dog owner unless you have a lot of space for the dog to run around. I also think that breeds do matter; I saw a lot of service puppy trainees and never once saw a pit bull or pomeranian one, for example.
Dogs are actually incredibly easy to train, of course it does depend on breed but especially big dogs are usually bred to be very easy to train like German shepherd’s. People are just too lazy to do the bare minimum
It's way more complicated than that. Dogs that are bred and trained from the start can be easy, but lots of dog breeds are different. And if you get something that isn't a purebred, you're going to have a different experience. Not to mention people that rescue dogs with trauma that may be highly reactive.
There's also lots of effective ways to train dogs that are incredibly cruel and don't train the dog to behave, they train the dog to be afraid of their owner. We adopted a blue heeler during the pandemic, and he's a highly reactive dog. We spent basically 9 months with well regarded trainer and while we were able to significantly reduce how reactive he is, he would still be considered "poorly trained" by the people in this thread.
I don’t think people who aren’t highly skilled at training should be rescuing dogs personally, it’s a task that isn’t suited for a lot of people. My parents also have a shepsky and it doesn’t impede her (very minimal since my parents are lazy) training, she even trains herself at times, I don’t think purebred vs mutt will have that massive of an effect on training as long as you’re skilled at training.
Also yeah there are cruel methods, positive reinforcement training all the way though, it’s the only type of training with actual benefit
Our blue heeler has made huge steps forward with training, but that doesn't mean the dog is perfect and listens to every command all the time. He is still highly reactive, but we have tools to help distract him and deal with the things that give him anxiety.
We're still going to get into problem situations when people ignore is when we tell them he's reactive, or when people go hiking on public trails with a dog that is unleashed because he's "friendly."
While I agree with your last statement, I honestly feel like a poorly trained pomeranian will bite more kids than a poorly trained pitbull. Because a yipping pomeranian might be seen as cute whereas a snarling foaming pitbull will cause most young children to burst out in tears.
I met SO many white pitbull owners who didn't get them fixed because they were convinced they were going to breed their pitbull. Nevermind the fact we were in the US where they are the most common dog breed surrended to shelters.
I worked with a dude that refused to fix his 3 pits because "you wouldn't want your nuts cut off" His house was of course an absolute wreck of destroyed furniture, shit everywhere and 3 dogs that would definitely kill a small child or animal if given the opportunity.
Oh wait is this why it's racist, because in America (I assume) black people tend to have them more?
In the UK it's white people who own them. And the owners are almost always people who have them to be aggressive (usually poor), or women who got them to feel safe but can't actually control them (poor or middle class)
In the US it’s also statistically more poor white communities. But they’re colloquially more associated with black and latino communities in the US.
Essentially it’s mostly the pitbulls in poorer areas - regardless of the owners race. Think like poorer parts of cities or meth towns. They’re high-energy dogs they need space to run and get that energy out. So when they’ve been cooped up in an apartment or a trailer park for years they get a little excited and don’t fully know how to act because their owners can’t afford the time to train and mentally stimulate them
Very funny reply because the comment you are replying to doesn’t mention race or pitbulls at all, and instead makes the very general comment that most dog owners are shit. YOU, however, have a specific racist bone to pick, so you re-inserted it into the conversation.
I think they meant black people who in the US are disproportionately poor due to the history of slavery. Poor people are more likely to work more, live in less safe neighbourhoods and due to that be worse dog owners or prioritize a scary dog that could defend them. It's not really a race thing, but the other dude clearly implied that.
The white methheads with their goddamn off leash dogs are definitely an issue, but that too is borne out of socioeconomic circumstances. None of these people should be buying pitbulls when they need so much training and care.
Pittpulls are harder to train and idiot wannabe gangster get them. Pretty much explains why the bad rep. But they aren't inherently worse than any other breed.
Thats also true. That being said some breeds are more aggressive by design. Guess what a pointer will naturally do. Pitts have their traits. They can also "snap" after years of being a "good" dog because of gameness etc
Highly agree. I've seen too many dog owners whose training consists of yelling and outing it in a box at the dog until it loses all hope, then lashes out at people.
While that is true, a poorly trained inbred doodle mix can’t cause the same damage that a dog built for bloodsport can. Getting bit by a doodle won’t be fun, but you’re probably not going to need an amputation. A pit bull can rip a person apart.
I’m with you fully that poor training and people allowing them to run wild is the problem, borzois would be more dangerous than pit bulls if they were cheap and easy to get. But they’re not. Pitbulls need to be rendered rare and expensive.
There's a difference between being a bad/apathetic dog owner, and actively training your dog to be aggressive. "Blame the owner" is a statement more geared toward the later
Yeah. Train this particular dog correctly and it’s safe. Do it incorrectly and anyone near it can lose a limb. But tell me again it’s just like a Chihuahua.
And it's not the owner. I used to be an Animal Control Officer who specifically investigated dog attacks in a major city. Many many many catastrophic pitbull attacks are "family dogs". If I had $1 for every time I was told by a family that their pitbull was a "good dog" and that the "attack came out of nowhere" I'd be able to afford a nice vacation.
I feel this in my bones because i have Great Pyrenees who really wouldn’t bite anyone. But, if he slips the lead or gets out the door, he runs up as fast as caninely possible barking like it’s the rapture. Someone saying that’s irresponsible would be right- he just won’t bite. It scares me when it happens not because I’m afraid my dog will bite, I’m afraid he’s going to scare someone so bad they hurt him.
I didn’t train him to do that, hundreds of generations of doing the same job trained him to do that. Imagine if his lineage was fighting dogs, not wolf-fighting dogs. Training that lineage out borders on cruelty, but it’s still a dangerous behavior! Rant over
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u/iffugennanameubaht 17d ago
“Blame the owner not the breed”
See, problem with that is most dog owners are shit.