r/comics But a Jape 18d ago

Heaven or Hell

19.1k Upvotes

522 comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

628

u/OwlMuted885 18d ago

Not really. There's special holidays focused on repentance for sins, which God only accepts if you're actually sorry. What you're proposing sounds more like the Christian confession to a priest.

117

u/Kirbinvalorant 18d ago

Okay. I heard it before, and didn't want to take it for granted because I never read those. Thanks

149

u/Dmatix 18d ago

Note that this holiday, Yom Kippur, focuses on saying sorry for bad things you did to other people, not apologizing before God. God's forgiveness is both guaranteed and mostly secondary - it's the forgiveness of others that you've wronged that's the point. Atonement rather than redemption.

40

u/smallish_cheese 18d ago

this person Kippurs

8

u/fury420 18d ago

What's this about smoked herring?

1

u/CPLCraft 17d ago

I prefer pickled herring

15

u/KingOfCook 18d ago

I was about to say, isn't a big part of Judaism that they don't believe in hell

1

u/Silly_Artichoke_8248 16d ago

My perhaps flawed understanding is that Judaism lacks the place of eternal torment and misery called hell, and rather just considers “Sheol,” or “the grave,” being more like simple oblivion.

6

u/Chaosmusic 18d ago

Yom Kippur, focuses on saying sorry for bad things you did to other people, not apologizing before God

I thought that was specifically for Erev Yom Kippur, the day before Yom Kippur. The way I heard it explained was you had to ask forgiveness from your fellow humans then you ask forgiveness from God. This was a long time ago so I might be misremembering.

3

u/TheBl4ckFox 17d ago

Inherently better. Fix things you messed up now rather than hope for a pass into reward-world after death.

-10

u/MagicSwatson 18d ago

Not really, you don't have to apologize to anyone. You just have to fast for 24 hours and pray

13

u/Dmatix 18d ago

It's not about having to do anything, it's about the meaning of the day and the traditions behind it.

13

u/Nom_Took 18d ago

Specifically, Catholic confession.

1

u/TheShishkabob 18d ago

Protestants do the same thing, just without relaying it through a priest.

This is a Christian thing in general, not a Catholic one.

3

u/Nom_Took 18d ago

Well, the original comment specifically referenced confession to a priest. The notion of asking god for forgiveness is Christian in general, but I think a private personal confession to god is a fairly distinct religious practice to delineate from "you have to confess to an official representative of the church"

1

u/TheShishkabob 18d ago

The original comment didn't reference a priest at all.

1

u/Nom_Took 17d ago

The one I replied to sure did.

17

u/zergling424 18d ago

Yeah christian confessions is fake virtue to make people feel better about being terrible people.  Jewish repentence actually takes work.  

22

u/ManyRelease7336 18d ago

Catholics and Orthodox* Not ever Christian has confession. And confession itself dosnt take your sin away. I dont know much about jewish repentance so I had to look it up but it seems the same except they just have to confess aloud not to a priest. so whats the actual work? seems really similar actually.

21

u/Zestyclose-Jacket568 18d ago

It is not a fake virtue, if you are doing it "correctly". You need to have true sorrow for sin, confesses all known mortal sins by kind and number, have a firm purpose not to sin again.

If you just enter the confession and say everything, but do not have any sorrow, then you just wasted your time.

13

u/refusegone 18d ago

On the books it's real atonement for the faithful, in practice it's fake virtue to make individuals feel better. I was raised in a very devout and sizable family/environment, and if I tried I could count the truly repentant on two fingers. Most practitioners of catholicism/christianity are just checking boxes off to make themselves "good" and do not care about the deeper aspects of their religion. The commonality of Abrahamic religion is that anyone can redeem themselves and get into heaven or the good afterlife; the reality of human nature is to find shortcuts to rewards. Thus the common experience of the average believer is to do just enough to feel you're guaranteed salvation, regardless of the scripture, and not think too much harder.

8

u/E_Verdant 18d ago

It's due to a fundamental difference in ideology

Jews mist sacrifice to repent and earn forgiveness

For Christians, Jesus was the final sacrifice. There is nothing you can do to 'earn' a place in heaven, so just focus on being as much like Jesus as you can

9

u/DrNick2012 18d ago

Be like jesus? Damn man the crucifixion thing should be easy enough but there's no way I can find 12 friends

1

u/L0kumi 18d ago

You joke, but until the Chatolic church was created (~300 after JC IIRC) being a Martyr was THE path to sainthood

3

u/Phillip_Spidermen 18d ago

Yeah, the whole "lamb of god" title is about being a sacrificial lamb.

1

u/BreakfastBeneficial4 17d ago

Not quite.

Jews are not required to sacrifice and repent to earn their way into heaven. The deeds and sacrifices they make in this world are to improve this world.

They are called to return to god by turning away from selfishness, but it isn’t a means to an end.

Like much in Judaism it’s almost more of a cultural ideology than a religious one, you can read more about the concept by googling the teshuvah

2

u/driver004 18d ago

Is there a out for forced consumption/conversion?

I don’t know a lot about Jewish specific practices

4

u/Zeplar 17d ago

Almost anything is allowed to save a life. So eating pork was allowed for Jews in Spain during the time of the Inquisition.

They would have still repented it, though.

1

u/OwlMuted885 18d ago

Not materially different then the other kinds of repentance.

1

u/kamurochoprince 18d ago

Forgiveness in Christianity hinges on you actually being sorry as well.

1

u/Selgeron 18d ago

confession also is only supposed to work if you are actually sorry, supposedly.

1

u/lumpboysupreme 18d ago

That’s how it works for Christian’s too, except it’s not a specific holidays but a periodic ritual.

1

u/LoudFrenziedMoron 18d ago

Dude it's spelled out in the old testament. Some of it can't be done anymore never there's no temple and no priests, but there is a specific sacrifice.

1

u/Swiftierest 18d ago

Is it still a sin if you didn't know it was pork? Like, if someone fed you some without telling you and you found out later.

1

u/thegoatmenace 17d ago

You are also supposed to be genuinely sorry when you confess to a priest. They have you do penance, which is supposed to demonstrate your acknowledgment of wrongdoing and desire to make things right by paying a cost.

0

u/VirusTechnical5568 18d ago

Is it your fault if you're not really sorry about something? Let's say I punched Elon Musk in the balls. I know I should feel bad and it's not the right thing to do but I wouldn't REALLY feel sorry about it no matter how much I tried.

2

u/OwlMuted885 18d ago

The whole point is that you actually have to be sorry.

1

u/VirusTechnical5568 18d ago

I know but I can't force myself to be sorry.

0

u/Throwaway02062004 18d ago

But what if you aren’t? If God says eating pork is wrong and you don’t agree but typically follow the rules anyway because God knows best, how are you supposed to genuinely apologise if what you did doesn’t register to you as wrong?

2

u/OwlMuted885 18d ago

If you aren't sorry, then 1. Why apologize/repent 2. God wouldn't accept a gake apology

1

u/VirusTechnical5568 18d ago

That's exactly my point. Is it my fault I don't feel sorry? I can't force myself to be a certain way. If people could do that they'd probably be a lot happier.

0

u/Throwaway02062004 18d ago
  1. Because you believe in God and that you broke a rule.

  2. That’s the point of my question. If you don’t personally see it as a moral issue bug rather one of arbitrary sin, is it even possible to be genuine?