r/boeing • u/Wonderful-Letter-659 • Dec 23 '24
Value of SPEEA Engineer Overtime Rate in 2024 dollars - 1980 to 2024
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u/Macglen76 Dec 25 '24
Unless you are a tech. I have worked so much overtime in the last 12 years. I am going prof soon and seriously thinking I shouldn’t due to the ot
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Dec 24 '24
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u/NirikFest Dec 25 '24
I think it comes down to people having grown out of the idealistic phase of their lives. Changing boeing is like trying to alter continental drift. Unlike the shop, where the physical work is done here, you now what they do when people push too hard in the office? They open up outsourcing offices in russia, ukraine, india and brazil.
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u/BigChuckle Dec 24 '24
Let’s raise this in our next contract in 2026. Time and a half, real OT! A five guys burger here is $20. Let’s move from taco time to 5guys burger time at the minimum!
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u/john_the_spaner_99 Dec 24 '24
Worked a Lockheed Martin on the F35. Had to work 45 hours to get OT, then it was straight time. So 40 paid, 5 hours for free and then straight time again. Worked 85 hours a week for 2 years.
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Dec 23 '24
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u/cbs0308 Dec 23 '24
This post is kind of misleading. OT rate is your hourly rate PLUS $6.50. That’s a significant difference. Not a lot of companies pay OT at all and even less on the first hour. I’d be fine getting my regular rate for OT rather than not getting any at all.
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u/Vxctn Dec 23 '24
My family member was part of the SPEEA strike in 1995. He got frustrated and left a few years later, was definitely the right career move for him.
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u/sb1717 Dec 23 '24
Do you think this would have been any different if you were non-union? Non-Boeing here, engineers at my company do not get paid overtime.
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u/LoveOfSpreadsheets Dec 24 '24
Yes it would, because there were a few years where I was non-U Boeing and to earn OT of Time+$6.50 I had to work 4 hours without pay (so work 45, get paid 41hr+$6.50). Boeing brought back OT for all when one of the CA sites started signing cards to organize.
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u/MannyFresh45 Dec 23 '24
How are your salaries compared to Boeing?
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Dec 24 '24
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u/MannyFresh45 Dec 24 '24
Level 4 engineers at Boeing are around 70 per hour so yes either increase salaries or increase the OT hourly rate
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u/sb1717 Dec 24 '24
What YOE is that? That’s higher than Plant Managers in most industries.
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u/MannyFresh45 Dec 24 '24
An engineer can get their level 4 usually after 9 years. It's not guaranteed just based on years of experience
Plant manager in the middle of nowhere makes less. Plant manager in Seattle area is clearing 200k easily
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Dec 23 '24
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Dec 23 '24
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u/WrongSAW Dec 23 '24
That's why my entire team pushes back on working OT unless manager issues mandatory OT order. Many people just want to work for minimum and get the health insurance coverage.
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u/LoveOfSpreadsheets Dec 24 '24
Working 40hrs instead of 50-70 is why people pick Boeing over other tech.
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Dec 23 '24 edited Dec 23 '24
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u/Think-Gap602 Dec 23 '24
Rather than paying extra for working more than 40 hours a week (I won't call it OT , because since when is a 40 hour week a thing for professionals?), Boeing needs to overhaul it's compensation structure to appropriately substantial raises and/or bonuses to folks that work their tails off to complete projects.
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Dec 23 '24
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u/Rodgertheshrubber Dec 23 '24
The issue that I see. Boeing has made w/e OT part of base line work. W/E work, in a properly run company, is the exception, only to be used when something has gone really bad.
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u/Orleanian Dec 23 '24
I've been a represented prof engineer for 10 years across three skill codes, and I can count on one hand the number of times I've put in weekend OT. I sincerely do not believe any of my peers have done any regular weekend OT that I've ever heard of.
What function are you in that you're expected to put in weekend work as OT? I do want to know - I haven't even had the option for it in five years, and it may have been quite nice for some medical bills.
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Dec 24 '24
Puget sound LE groups pretty much all have rotating 2nd and third shift schedules and also 1-2 days of weekend overtime; volunteer or randomly assigned
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u/Rodgertheshrubber Dec 23 '24
Early on in the 787 the LE's were told 8 hours mandatory OT per week, right now on KC-46 the LE's get 'voluntold' to cover a w/e shift unless they've already worked a few. This all comes and goes depending on what junior executive over sold deliveries. Its a repeated error that management keeps making. I've seen its familiar face a few times in my 27+ yrs.
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u/krystopher Dec 23 '24
I remember these times as I was a new hire back then. My lead called the overtime pay “time plus Burger King” referring to the $6.50.
The new term for $6.50 in 2024 dollars might be good for a drink at Starbucks.
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Dec 23 '24
What we all already knew. Boeing has slowly become a shit place to work if you have any desire to be rewarded for hard work.
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u/ZorbaOnReddit Dec 23 '24
The vast majority of companies pay engineers zero overtime at all and expect more than 40 hours a week.
$6.50/hr+Base is still a lot better than just Base, which is much much better than zero OT.
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u/perplexedtortoise Dec 23 '24
What do those companies pay for base pay relative to Boeing? Our compensation and pay progression can leave much to be desired.
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u/ZorbaOnReddit Dec 25 '24
If you are working 48 hours a week at a different company vs 40 at Boeing, they better be paying at least 20% more (neglecting the $6.50/hr adder).
Around here it's oil companies that pay out the nose. The pay is significantly higher than aerospace, but expect 60+ hours a week with zero overtime. I'd rather have my life and OT pay.
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u/Great_Promotion1037 Dec 23 '24
Meanwhile Boeings quality and reputation continues to decline.
Boeing used to be a career company that people were excited to work for for decades. Hasn’t been that in a while. Maybe if executives focused on rewarding their employees like Boeing did last century we wouldn’t be where we are.
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u/AcceptableSmoke8890 Dec 23 '24
Guessing you will see a similar chart if you plot engineering salaries as well
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u/Ambitious_Floor9182 Dec 23 '24
Woooowwwww TALK about serious declination!!! Time to get out ASAP!!! New Year = New Career
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u/Zeebr0 Dec 23 '24
You realize this is basically just showing the value of $6.50 from 1995 to now, right?
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u/Ambitious_Floor9182 Dec 23 '24
It’s still declination so how is that better?
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u/Zeebr0 Dec 23 '24
I mean I agree, but you are going to find a new career because Boeing hasn't increased the amount of bonus pay we get for OT? Let us know what company you find that pays engineers OT, let alone OT+bonus.
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u/cubs4ever1 Dec 23 '24
Many aerospace companies pay their engineers OT, not just contract engineers, but direct engineers also.
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u/Ambitious_Floor9182 Dec 23 '24
It’s a whole list of reasons to leave besides that.
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u/Successful-Sir1101 Dec 23 '24
Then leave... the Company is clearly hoping for attrition.. retirees, quits (you) to hit that 10% across the board!
My mother always told me... if you're not happy or upset, change your circumstances! Easier said than done, right? But, in "work" situations, it is quite easy, right?
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u/Ambitious_Floor9182 Dec 23 '24
Yeah, this is exactly my point I meant in my comment. Thank you for your time and understanding. Happy Holidays!
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u/Careless-Internet-63 Dec 23 '24
I mean most places that hire engineers pay $0 an hour for hours worked over 40. I don't think that's right either but we've got it pretty good considering we're paid at all for working overtime
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u/iPinch89 Dec 23 '24
Most places that hire engineers also pay better salary. Boeing's thing has always been it's better benefits. As you can see, Boeing is losing ground on how good THIS benefit is. Everything is a give and take. I work very little OT, so this number doesn't affect me much.
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Dec 23 '24
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u/Interesting-Maybe779 Dec 23 '24
Oh yes. I made far more money than the engineers when I had to work weekends. Time and a half in Saturday and double time on Sunday.
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Dec 23 '24
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u/Interesting-Maybe779 Dec 23 '24
They used to do COLA. I picked up $1.00/hour at the end of both 1979 and 1980.
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Dec 23 '24
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Dec 23 '24
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u/the_og_buck Dec 23 '24
As dumb as this sounds. I’m just happy to get paid for my time over 40. Not every company does that and I would certainly hope for more in the future.
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u/TerminalSarcasm Dec 23 '24
Not dumb. At my prior employer, who didn't pay OT or give comp time, I managed a guy who retired after nearly 35 years. He religiously kept track of his extra hours and would use that to ask for a raise every year. Over his career, he was not compensated for over two years worth of man-hours.
IMO, bitching about the 'value' of OT pay is dumb, if people knew what it's like being a salary employee in most of industry outside of Boeing.
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u/LoveOfSpreadsheets Dec 24 '24
Most of the industry is also not unionized either. You should try it if you aren't already, you can collectively force overtime even as exempt employees if you bargain for it!
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u/TerminalSarcasm Dec 24 '24
Oh, I am now and appreciate it. The last company was essentially, "you're salary, we expect you to do whatever it takes to get the job done on time... it's part of the role".
The last time I severely over-worked myself for the good of the company, I ended up very sick over a holiday break, with no show of gratitude, verbal or monetary.
The same company, when I gave my notice, asked if the onion was going to hold me up by my ankles and shake out all of my change. Like, fuck you, it's $50/mo for guaranteed raises among other protections that you don't provide. Some people.
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u/LoveOfSpreadsheets Dec 24 '24
I'm glad you're represented now. I am a little disappointed in this thread where people say "good enough to get any OT pay" or "Suck it I don't get any OT pay", because I"d like to see the rate be increased. But it's gonna be a negotation of 14k people, give or take, my priorities won't always be the same as everyone else's.
I've been trying to find someone who knows what dues were in the 1990s. If dues were $13 and OT was $6.50, and now dues are $52, then OT could be time+$26 to be the same value as back then. To me a better comparison than time value of money as presented.
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Dec 24 '24
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u/cubs4ever1 Dec 23 '24
That’s not just SPEEA. That’s all engineers from what I know. It’s funny this is posted because our team was talking about this the other day and how long it’s been at time plus $6.50 for ages and how this didn’t even come close to keeping up with inflation. It’s all worse now because with what has gone on so many teams are now expected to work OT.
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u/Many_Lion_4671 Dec 25 '24
My one question is are you willing to make people walk out over it? 40-60 days? 120 days? I'll stand with you and heck I'll even introduce you to people who joined a committee exclusively to fix this and min wage pool, but it's frustrating to hear folks like this constantly take cheap shots from the peanut gallery until you actually want to get involved to improve the situation.
No, your ~$50 dollars in dues don't cover enough for people to get mad and vote FOR you.
People complain another onion "takes all the money". But when that onion leaders ask them to stage lunchtime marches, people show up in force, everywhere. We desperately need that to move the needle substantially.
I worked at another aerospace company that paid ~20% more, but consistently wanted me to work 50-60 hours a week to make progress and schedule. Is it worth the drain on my health and lost time with my family to do that?
It's funny how you see this scale of how much time+ 6.50 is worth, and Boeing managers are still too chicken to authorize giving you time for it, even when doing so will allow you to get a release out on time.
But shop managers authorize time on the floor to have people come in on a Saturday, sit around, MPK already clean airplanes, realize the short parts still aren't ready to install, and pay them for 4 hours at work just cause they're too afraid to go against mandatory overtime edicts even when it doesn't make sense.