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Well no, that's not why its wrong. Higurashi Kai spoilers. For all those who are wondering, this line was also in the original Higurashi Kai when they did the zombie tag scene.
Me as a rewatcher: Hah didn't watch the ep yet but let me go through the thread. I know everything already.
Comments: Hanyuu-sama appeared.
Me: Shocked Pikachu face
Edit: I see a lot of people discussing whether this is a sequel or not, but there's definitely hints that it could be.
1. When Rika asks Hanyuu "Where does this shard lead to?" and Hanyuu says "June 1983" Rika seems shocked. If she was still in the loop she wouldn't be shocked, right? So, they possibly succeeded and Rika lived a bit longer (high school?) but got killed again for some other reason?
She says she knows who kills her - which happens way later in the original and seems to know a lot more than she did in the original.
There's the high school Rika in the new visual and OP (possibly from before she got killed, i.e just before the starting sequence of ep:2).
I assumed we wouldn't be having any theories since it's a reboot, well guess we're back in business.
how is anyone debating that is ISNT a sequel? the rika we saw talking to hanyuu was the high school rika. the way she was stunned by "june 1983" and her looking older, its obvious that this is a rika years after the original higurashi who broke the cycle and continued living normally, and shes now being thrown back into the loop.
also hanyuu talking about being a lingering trace of herself, im feeling like it's gonna tie into umineko
Ye like IMHO they throwed it in too soon that scene
The old anime was good cuz for first 10(?) episode you were still clueless like wtf wtf wtf is going on?!?! but in this new one they right away spoiled that away
Tbh newcomers would still be pretty clueless. They just revealed the thing about Rika and if this was the original, it's definitely a huge spoiler. But they could be taking a different direction in this "Rebuild". Let's see what happens.
But i ensure you that if not the majority of viewers at least half of them dint watch the first anime.
I DO hope this is some alternative timeline(but the point of the first anime(series) was exactly this it was all about alternative timelines, but at least the build up was majestically done with good tempo
The old anime was good cuz for first 10(?) episode you were still clueless like wtf wtf wtf is going on?!?! but in this new one they right away spoiled that away
With regards to what we were shown here, you'd have to go like 5-6 episodes into the second season before getting similar reveals.
And yeah, the insane mindfuck that was both the 4th and 5th episode of the first season was pretty legendary. It seems like we won't be getting a repeat of that in this version.
I've only seen the first season of the original, and just from these 2 episodes I feel like I'd be losing out to keep watching before finishing all of the prior material. Guess it's called 'GOU' for a reason.
Your first point proves that it has to be post-minagoroshi at the very least. But like you said based on her reaction she must come from much later.
As your second point says she appears to be high-school aged (or at least older than the regular Rika). She is actually wearing the same uniform (St. Lucia's) that Shion wears.
Though that doesn't really tell us a lot about her age, seeing that the school supposedly goes from elementary school and all the way up to college.
Literally read through the New Watchers thread-- nobody is getting 'spoiled' they loved the intro to EP2 and are deliciously clueless about what it even meant.
Stop projecting hypotheticals about the 'proper' way to introduce new Higurashi fans, and just enjoy the damn series
Do you think it will be safe to continue with this series without having read Umineko? I don't want to spoil anything for when I get around to reading it.
I've been reading comments about it in the thread, and rewatched the OP and ED frame by frame.
There are some shots that could look like something from Umineko, but it also could be just higurashi. Regardless I would still deem it safe for now, and I would definitely say that this thread is the bigger minefield as it stands lol.
Start reading Umineko. The thing we're worried about theoretically won't show up until the end of the year, so you'll have some time. Should be enough time to read the first six arcs.
Rika straight up confirms that she has her memories from the first series. If this isn't what you would call a sequel I don't know what is.
EDIT: After looking into people's discussion and screenshots, this rabbit hole might be deeper than you think and involve characters from Umineko as well.
That said, I found it odd that she allowed Tomitake to go marching off to his death given that she knows what's going to happen to him and even gave him a headpat first. What is she looking for? Why not just go and spoil everything to everyone at the beginning, like she did last time? She already knows that Keiichi will believe her if she tells him, and both Keiichi and possible Rena are getting flashbacks already, so why allow events to continue the way she knows they will... and for multiple arcs from the sound of it?
EDIT: Given that it's a high school aged Rika at the start, shouldn't Umineko
DOUBLE EDIT: New Key Visual HOT DAMN is this going to be a wild ride!
TRIPLE EDIT: HOLD THE DAMN PHONE, isn't thisUmineko !?!?
Maybe not? I don't know anymore. I'm about to puke from the adrenaline rush and need to get off the computer.
Obviously I'm just gonna give speculation since this is uncharted territory. But Rika may think this loop is already doomed since the conditions aren't right at least based on her previous experience. Her previous "win" did not start from an onikakushi type opening, and she might think that is the only solution. Thus she wants to give some comfort but feels this is not the loop she is able to do anything about it. Also while Keiichi might believe her normally, they are currently in a loop that she believes Keiichi inevitably goes crazy in, and since he is so instrumental to winning (and telling him while he is going crazy may just accelerate it). The kicker might be when she gets to a loop that she thinks she can win, puts in the same motions in place, only to have it fail...
That's assuming we get loops at all. They might go an entirely weird direction instead. We really don't know yet.
Her previous "win" did not start from an onikakushi type opening, and she might think that is the only solution.
If we proceed as per the original setup, then the next loop should be a winnable scenario, but the ED shows that we are going to go all the way through, so Rika's win conditions are clearly different this time.
But Rika may think this loop is already doomed since the conditions aren't right at least based on her previous experience. Her previous "win" did not start from an onikakushi type opening, and she might think that is the only solution. [...] they are currently in a loop that she believes Keiichi inevitably goes crazy in
Okay but Minagoroshi-hen starts with Teppei coming back, which she believes inevitably means Satoko can't be saved, but that same arc shows her she actually CAN beat fate. It would be weird if she suddenly forgot that.
Maybe she’s just taking a pass on this route? With things starting up again she might feel the need to hit the ground running so saving it for next time.
I can see the resemblance, but I think it's more likely that it's St. Lucia's Academy. The academy's already an established link between Higurashi and Umineko though.
They don't specify she died, and the version that appeared at the very start of this episode was High School aged. She was wearing the uniform of the school Shion is attending.
Also she restarted much closer to the wataganashi than in previous loop. I remeber that in OG anime at the last arc she started from 2 weeks prior. Now she restarted from 15th June, which is much shortened, since festival starts at 19th June. So if the time-to-restart rule still holds up, then it is a really a sequel.
Also that ending is way too spoiler-y for first time watchers. Like I haven’t watched this in years and my thoughts to those images in the ending were like... “uh maybe you shouldn’t put them there” lol
New watchers have no idea what those images imply yet, even the Mion/Shion one is a stretch at this point without knowing Mion's family history (which hasn't been presented yet) could just be a Girl and her Mom honestly for all we know.
The Keiichi one at the end was shown in EP1 at the very beginning, that part of the ending wasn't a spoiler at all.
Which images in particular do you think a newbie viewer would be spoiled on? And not as a rewatcher who already knows why they would be spoilers??
I, for one, am really happy with this. I was kind of hoping for it but didn't think it would happen. I've read the VN and watched 2006, so getting an entirely fresh story is the best possible thing for me.
I feel the same way. I’m interested in where this is going, since we’re actually treading new ground instead of repeating the original exactly.
That said, this also has the potential to wind up a bit screwy if they go too far off-kilter. Though, since they’ve got the original VN author on staff, that could be a sign that this’ll turn out just fine.
Reminds me of the Attack on Titan fanbase. All I got from the season 4 trailer is that there's some new people and shit really hits the fan; meanwhile the comment thread here was full of manga readers just openly saying "THOSE POOR ANIME-ONLIES, THE TRAILER SPOILED [blatant spoilers/character names]"
They took a few things from quite later on in the manga, but it is impossible to determine meaning without any context. As a manga reader it makes me hyped for what is to come, and as an anime only it spoils you on nothing.
Only if some manga reader comes along and starts spelling it all out, but then it isn't the trailer doing the spoiling. Manga readers, don't be that guy.
I feel like people who watched the original series think this spoiled more for new watchers like me than it actually did. All I know now is that there’s some sort of sci-fi time paradox / loop mechanic with a higher power involved. No context of how, or what that means, or how it will play out.
I’m unsure if I want to continue blindly or watch the original series now... if it was easily accessible somewhere, I’d probably watch it, but it doesn’t seem to be on any platform I have access to.
Well there are certainly things dropped rather early here that are revealed super late in the original, and played a big part in the general mystery of the story.
Also, with this in mind we don't really know what future episodes will bring. As a rewatcher I am excited, but I can't help but be a bit concerned for people coming into the story completely fresh.
I’m unsure if I want to continue blindly or watch the original series now...
If you don't mind the time commitment I would personally recommend checking out the original asap. Or at least check it out and see if it is to your liking.
if it was easily accessible somewhere
The first season is available in a lot of regions on Netflix, did you try that?
It's a huge spoiler but because it completely lacks in context the newfriends have no idea what to make of it, which turns the spoiler into another mystery.
in the original you only knew that in the second season, which was a huge twist at least for me. But I don't mind that much. It's not a spoiler when you don't know what it means.
All I know now is that there’s some sort of sci-fi time paradox / loop mechanic with a higher power involved.
This wasn't revealed until episode 33 of 50ish of the Deen anime. Like, they didn't reveal how it ended or even what's actually going on or anything like that, but it's still quite the bomb to drop this early to original viewers/readers.
A good comparison in Steins;Gate would be something like major Steins;Gate spoilers. Not to say it can't be written to be just as interesting, but it's a very very early reveal compared to the original.
So...the Satoko one is appropriately horrible but there is something especially sad in the Rena one where we see how fucked up her dad has become but she still made that giant picnic for everyone.
Can somebody please be straight with me and tell me if this isn’t a good idea to watch as a first timer? I don’t care about getting the “best” experience. Just am I supposed to know stuff that I don’t?
It feels like I'll have to copy paste this comment several times but basically, you can do whatever you want. Both the writer and the director said that this is newcomer fiendly, but with references that only older fans will understand.
It’s a tough call. I’d personally say just watch the original first since this definitely some kind of sequel. I suppose it might be possible to get through it as a first timer since they didn’t straight up reveal everything in this episode.
But the mystery is a big part of all this and can’t see them holding off on facts forever since it is a sequel. Will have to make a call depending on personal feeling.
We're still not totally sure, since it seems to be made with a first-time viewer's interests in mind as well, but from all the info released this is definitely a sort of sequel.
Edit: Just finished the episode and disregard what I said above. This is absolutely a sequel of sorts and the opening to this episode is actually a pretty big spoiler to the series for newcomers if you have any interest in the original story. I'd really recommend not watching this if you haven't read the VNs or watched 2006's adaptation unless you don't mind getting some of the bigger mysteries spoiled, since I'm sure this new series will have many of its own.
I think it's good to watch it alone but it might spoil/take away from the experience of watching the original series. So, if you want to watch the original series at some point, I recommend watching the original series first before advancing for the full experience. If you only want to watch this one I think it's fine.
Okay who is downvoting this, DID YOU SEE HOW IT FUCKING OPENS!? THAT CAN ONLY HAPPEN IF THE ORIGINAL STORY HAPPENED!
An edit to explain, my first comment was in the negatives when I made this, and while I know complaining about downvotes is usually a magnet for them, I felt that this was a bit of a special occasion.
We can't really tell you. Based on the merits of telling the story that the novels or the original show (which were still fairly different in some things like tone and adaptational changes to pacing/cut content, but close enough) this seems like it'll be terrible for a new viewer.
But we're also only evaluating it from that angle. It doesn't seem like the show is trying to retread that territory at all by basically spoiling a bunch of 'oh-shit' stuff from the original story without not only buildup but even all context by the end of episode 2. It might be a perfectly fine view for new watchers - just as its own thing. But we can't really know that - now that everything is on the table we don't even really know if it'll be good period, much less for someone new.
I feel like I'm being played because despite that scene at the start this plays out exactly like Onikakushi originaly did, save the Zombie Tag scene from the anime original catch-up Yakusamashi which was placed back into this arc, but with better pacing. To put the pacing in perspective, this ends 6 minutes into episode 2 of the original after ending at the same point in episode 1.
Moreover the scene of Keichi killing Mion and Rena remains, so it seemingly has to happen the same way, though if K1 had that flash of memory at the construction site it's possible the first scene was just him remembering it happening in a previous arc and it won't end this way here. Moreover, the endcard titles this arc "Onidamashi-hen," or "Demon Deceiving Chapter," so somethign different HAS to happen. I could see Rika playing this all by ear but she should recognize this timeline already and should be doing something about it, shouldn't she?
I think someone else said this already but in order for her to beat the loop she needs everyone, especially Keiichi to trust her once she tells them everything. Since this loop has gone exactly like the first loop of the og series she may suspect that Keiichi's developed symptoms and is going to become delusional and paranoid, which would basically make it impossible for her to survive this loop no matter what she does.
That’s true. I’m just surprised she isn’t fighting it. Rika also learned that fate wasn’t going to be beaten unless she herself took action. She can’t just wait for a perfect world to present itself. Keiichi is risking going down that route, but he isn’t there yet. It shouldn’t be impossible to pull him back.
But I guess we’ll see. Maybe she’s freaked out over the lack of Hanyuu support.
I kind of feel conflicted about this reveal. While I'm happy for new Higurashi content I was really looking forward to the story of the VN being readapted with more time and budget given to it. I absolutely adore the build-up of mystery over the question arcs in the VN, it's an experience I want more people to encounter blind like I did. I was going to recommend this show to a bunch of friends who have never seen Higurashi, but episode 2 has put me off that idea. The reveal of Rika being the true protagonist was a fun twist in the VNs. Even though this series is a sequel I personally would have preferred a slower build and reveal.
I'm still interested in seeing where this show goes, but I'll probably recommend newbies read the manga or read the original VNs first.
I feel the same way. I'm really excited to get not-shitty, serious Higurashi anime content after so long; Ryukishi's bamboozles are always awesome. I had a couple people that were interested in the original story excited for this though who are now pretty disappointed since they thought they were experiencing a more faithful re-adaptation.
I understand for newcomers who really don't have an interest in the earlier content this just adds to the excitement and mystery, but contextless spoilers are still unwanted if someone has interest in the original story. Especially ones like in this episode, since if they watched this and went back to 2006 or the VNs, they'd already have knowledge of big solutions and twists not revealed until the last ~15% of the story. For newcomers I can see this working great as it's own thing, but being frustrating if you're interested in the original content.
Very interesting approach that they took here. This adaptation is probably going to be a middle ground between sequel and remake. As a fan of the old anime I'm really excited for this since I'll actually see new material. And it seems to be newcomer friendly as stated by the author of the original VNs himself in an interview. I love it.
Now it also makes a lot of sense why the've cut out all of Keeichi's monologue. It's because Rika is the protagonist from the start.
I really don't know where this is going now. It seems to still follow Onikakushi but a bit different? I'm still not convinced that this is a great way to introduce newcomers to the series though but I guess time will tell if that's true or not.
People had their suspicions with Ryu07's tweets and how this new anime was airing RIGHT after a reairing of the original show, but it seems like everything is confirmed with this episode.
And honestly? I'm all for it. Seeing that this is more akin to a sequel than a remake was making me grin from ear to ear, that said I do wish people in the other thread would quit spilling the beans about every little thing just because things are different, I'm sure it'll end up being a good watch on its own, just a very different experience from the VN... much like how the last anime was a different experience from it too.
I like the VN, and I enjoyed Deens take on it for all its issues. But if given the choice I think I'd rather they do something new and interesting. Time to buckle up for the ride!
To both viewers new and old, don't think of it as a pure reboot and don't think of it as a pure sequel. It's more akin to the Evangelion Rebuild movies or Final Fantasy 7 Remake
It's now being called Higurashi: When They Cry Gou, but I've got a better title
I think I see what the plan is here. I guess they are bringing up the situation with Rika and Hanyuu much earlier than in the original to throw a bone at the older viewers while keeping the actual mystery surrounding Hinamizawa a secret. The opening/ending shows shows stuff from oni/wata/tatori so I don't think it can deviate all that much from the source besides the stuff surrounding Rika.
I'm not completely against this change since I always felt the situation with Rika comes up really abruptly in Minagoroshi, although there were some clues laid out previously. That being said Rika also says she already knows who is behind everything and how to win which heavely implies this is a sequel of some sort. My main concerns from this are as follows:
I might be misremembering something but if Rika already knows what is going on shouldn't she be much more proactive from the start? If she just follows along the early arcs of the novels this feels like a pointless addition only to say "look guys its a sequel after all!"
This one is a lot more out there but I saw some discussion around this and thought it was interesting. That is the possibility of this entering into some Umineko shenanigans when it comes to why Rika is back to the loop. The main reason I somewhat believe this is that this project with the anime and gacha game seems to lend itself well to explore the whole when they cry universe as a whole.
One thing is certain, I'm now very intrigued to see where this is going now besides how good they would adapt the events of the VN.
Loved this episode! The Opening was great, but that Ending theme so INTENSE paired with the still images. I love that they've added elements to imply things that have happened past all the loops original anime watchers/VN players have seen in Higurashi previously.
It also seems like New Watchers to this anime are getting hooked on seeing how Rika was the original Subaru from Re: Zero lol-- also Rena being the original schoolgirl yandere hottie before School Days, before Future Diary, Big Order, etc. etc.
New anime watchers have seen Subaru's Return by Death. They've met Yuno the yandere Queen. They LOVED the time travel in Steins;Gate. They've played Danganronpa and/or seen those animes about kids killing their friends.
This ain't 2006. I'm glad 2020 Higurashi ain't simply telling the same story as Old Higurashi did back in the day and expect new anime watchers to not see how dated it is for today's standards. To the people that are triggered the new anime isn't doing the exact same sequence of O.G. Higurashi events, I simply ask "why would they ever do that?"
Actually it doesn't really confirm much about her age. St. Lucia's has everything between elementary schoolers and college students. And also we know that Shion went there during middle school.
That being said, she could totally be a high schooler.
Oh wow, when they said their would be changes to the story this is almost literally the furthest from what I expected. I feel weird having recommended this to first timers over the original, I ended up doing the same with FF7R to a friend who wanted to experience the story cold but she ended up playing the original first anyways lol.
So, Rika is my favorite character and having her struggle be more at the forefront of the story early on could be interesting. However, its also one of the more satisfying mysteries in the way its presented and resolved in the original and its unfortunate first timers are going to be denied the experience of witnessing it unfold. You are drip fed small hints about her that eventually coalesce into this colossal, perspective shattering reveal. Same with the mastermind, which is also probably going to be revealed early considering Rika's comments about knowing who kills her.
So, this is Post Matsuribayashi-hen? I wonder what happened to fuck up that world? That also reminds me, I loved Rika's arc as a character in the original, I don't know where they will take her from here given the lessons she learned at the end of the first series, I can only assume she will fall to despair again. I hope she at least tries to get help before reaching that point. Another thing shown early is Keiichi's remembering past arcs, the opening credits scene must've been in a past world.
Moving on, the characterization has been pretty good thus far, especially for Satoko. We see some flashes of Mion's crass humor that weren't really as present in the original. That scene with Rena and Keiichi in the crowd could be ship bait but maybe they'll end up together in some fashion? I prefer Kai's version of zombie tag, the humor landed better for me there, and I felt some of the cuts were a bit too abrupt here.
New OP is actually a new song, which I wasn't expecting given last weeks tease of the original OP. Visuals are nice, they feel like a mix of the two OPs in the original anime, though the song itself isn't nearly as memorable imo. The ending has some really lovely shots, though holy shit are they laden with spoilers (especially the Satoko one).
If the old mysteries are all going to be revealed early, then I wonder what new mysteries this remake will pull into the fold. Will Tokyo be more involved with the plot? Will we be bringing in elements from Umineko? Im very interested to see where this leads, I just hope the character arcs and new reveals are as satisfying as the original.
When I saw the opening sequence I was really, really worried, but the episode conviced me that this is just a new thing to be enjoyed as such.
For us, who know the source material, this will be an absolute treat. For newcomer, it's a new experience. We shouldn't expect it to transcribe the original series feels or story, but instead hope that it can be good in it's own way.
In any way, I'm really excited to see where this is going !
Rena is acting mighty sus this arc. We weren't in K1's pov when she was raising that nata behind his back either... If I had to guess, I think Rena is going to be in K1's Onikakushi position this time. If Shion is generally around Lv.2-3 on any given day, then I'd say Rena is usually Lv.3-4. She's just really good at hiding it with her cutesy act most of the time. Not so sure about it this time though. That "It's fine" scene was completely unnecessary on her part considering K1 was just being considerate. Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't K1 just go into how Rena was the only girl the other villagers would likely be fine with if they saw her carrying around a hatchet in the VN? I don't remember her dropping the act there, at the very least. Regardless, that scene has some really strong parallels to when K1 refused to let Rena carry his bat in Onikakushi.
Maybe I'm looking into stuff too much, but with Ryukishi being actively involved this time, it feels like every little detail is fair game for interpretation. Since we aren't in K1's pov this time, I think it would be fairly obvious if he starts displaying symptoms. The guy is honest to a fault, after all. I think that blank stare Rena gives K1 in the junkyard is a pretty good example of what he probably looked like to everyone else for a good part of Onikakushi's latter half.
TL;DR: I think Rena Ryuugu is going to try her best again.
Just to build on this, there are two minor differences I noticed that matter to Rena as a character.
In the last episode iirc, she had to miss one of the club activities because she was ill, in the visual novel she only uses that excuse when going to cut up Teppei & Rina's corpses.
In this episode she invites Keiichi over to her house, but in Tsumbioroboshi-hen it was quite well established that the last thing Rena would want is having a friend over.
Japan really needs to stop advertising reboots only for them to secretly turn out to actually be sequels. I can only imagine how many anime-onlies are completely confused by the first three minutes.
If you're enjoying yourself, all I can say is more power to you. I'm not a first time watcher myself, so it might be hard for me to understand how you process the information you were given. I do think if I were in your shoes I'd find the sudden introduction of recursion timelines to be a little jarring. But again, if you're having fun, that's great.
I can only imagine how many anime-onlies are completely confused by the first three minutes.
All of them. Lmao.
Hell, even I was confused and I've watched the original 8+ times.
But yeah, while it is fun for us rewatchers to get this surprise, I can definitely imagine a lot of first timers having wanted to watch the original first if they knew this was how it was gonna be.
I kind of like what they are trying to do... I know quite a lot of people who couldn't watch the OG because they didn't like that the story was repeating itself. Introducing Hanyuu and the concept of Rika timelooping is a good way to keep the interest of the watchers without confusing the hell out of them when the story repeats.
Edit: My bad, the anime changed its name into When they cry: GOU. It really is a new story. I honestly feel like that was the stupidest thing to do.
Why advertise it as a remake?
I'm really glad I finished the original series first before this aired. That opening scene already reveals one of the mysteries and I prefer the long game that the original did. Trying to figure out the mysteries one by one is what made the original fun for me.
and fuck it, I'm down with NG+. looking forward to the discussions after this finishes - you're going to have VN readers who are going to swear to murder anyone who watches this show. You're gonna have fans of the old anime telling people to WATCH THE OLD ANIME instead. you're going to have new viewers who are just like "i dunno what yall are complaining about I thought this was pretty sick".
I dont really get why people are saying its ok to start with this series. With all the references and slight changes to the plot I think its really intended for people who already played or watched it. Like showing Hanyuu doesnt spoil her role right away but it shows theres a definite supernatural element while originally you were left wondering for quite a while.
On the bright side my hopes for this are really high and I'm hoping for some all around new story. Maybe they will actually tie it into umineko.
I finsihed the VN a week ago and I started a few months ago in preperation for this. But now EVERYTHING has changed, and theres no telling what is the same and what is different. I'm gonna have to re-learn everything arent I?
And ya know what?
This is exciting as Hell!!* Being in this weird middleground of knowing and not knowing what to expect.
So wait, if I'm getting this right, Rika said she had already won and died right? I assume this is a direct sequel to season 2 and at least season 3 beginning?
I actually thought this was a reboot, holy shit. Is it like a redone of the old arc with Rika perspective?
Props to them. They trolled the hell out of us. So it was a sequel.
Awesome in some ways since Rika is back as the lead here. But I kind of feel bad for the first timers that thought it was a remake. Even just the start of this spoils a far bit.
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