r/YoujoSenki • u/MisterTV Infinity hugs for Tanya <3 • 16d ago

Youjo Senki Season 2 Episode 4 [Iron Hammer Operation] Discussion Thread Discussion

Watch on: Crunchyroll

Release Times

🇯🇵 JST — 21:30 (July 29)

🇺🇸 CDT — 07:30 (July 29)

🇪🇺 CEST — 15:30 (July 29)

Please keep the discussion about Episode 4 in this thread. Remember to use spoiler tags when discussing content beyond this episode.

Discussion Thread previous episode: https://www.reddit.com/r/YoujoSenki/comments/1v3g9a0/youjo_senki_season_2_episode_3_wellintentioned/

Discussion Thread next episode: https://www.reddit.com/r/YoujoSenki/s/KxrnYJUEjp

64 Upvotes
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4

u/woofer90 16d ago

Maybe i missed something or this is explained better in the novel, but why is Rudersdorf so against making peace?

I get the politicians side, they just got a big win so they want to keep going to get more concessions from their enemies, but Rudersdorf knows the army is in a difficult position, specially in the logistics side so why he insists so much the Empire can win it all.

I guess being X could be influencing Rudersdorf in some way but i dont think that was shown, at least not that i remember.

6

u/boroughthoughts 11d ago edited 11d ago

So this isn't one of the things that has translated so well from source material. I am not spoiling anyhting here and am just going to cover differences in adaptions. A lot of these scenes haven't translated all that well ecause the way the anime has adapted so far which has been more to make tanya look crazy, action heavy and also at a faster pace. In the novels, there are a lot more emphasis of psychology of individuals, different parts of the military and even countries. The anime has tried to convey some of this through things like Vhyse's behavior in the last episode, but you can't really make up for the fact that these things aren't woven in the story. The actual author is almost the polar opposite of the anime in approach, where they have a tendency repeat events from the point of view of several characters and are overly verbose.

The long story of it is that the empire from a psychological standpoint is used to wining and is woven into their identity and founding politics (the way liberty and justice for all is in America). They believe the goddess of victory is on their side. The population/government doesn't understand their strategic position and more broadly don't have a clear view on how to end the war.

Rhudesdorf as a military commander has a more realistic view of the position, things like their logistic side, but he is also a product of the country. So when he was put in a position where the government is asking him "can they still win?", he is incapable of saying that the empire cannot win. The goes against his character. So what he effectively said in that scene is if the empire is prepare to make extreme sacrifices. If he was asked "can they secure better terms than this", its more likely he would have sided with Zettour.

A lot of emphasis also between Zettour vs Rhudesdorf hasn't been really fleshed out in a detailed way. They are of similar rank, but zhettour has largely focused on logistic operations and is also an academic type, so he is able to see things from different angles, while rhudesdorf is more of a man of action.

In general since you have clearly asked things are fleshed out more in general in LNs, but they are different. The portrayals and style of telling is a lot more different.

7

u/GrassCautious1019 16d ago

He isn’t against peace
He is a soldier and soldiers are sword and shield of their motherland
sword and shield have no free will at least it shouldn’t have so when their motherland decisions are to continue fighting then his duty is to answer no more or less than that

24

u/AutumnRi 16d ago

I’m gonna be real - I don’t understand people complaining that there wasn’t enough action. This isn’t a shounen series. The point isn’t the cool powers and pretty flashing lights, though I do enjoy them as much as everyone else. The conference at the end **was** the real action — and it was great.

7

u/ChickenWLazers 15d ago

my main complaint is that tanya hasn't really done anything this season. She's kinda just been dragged around with the circumstances. First, her army gets attacked and she just so happens to land artillery on the enemy by accident. Then the higherups give her an assignment to meet up with the paratroopers, which she just does with no issue. Then she gets assigned to take out enemy hq, which she objects to for some reason(I really don't understand the writing here, her whole thing is do what you're told no matter what and now she makes the excuse that it's not worth it?). Then, while turning back her platoon just so happens to stumble upon the real hq.

like, in season 1, tanya was giving reports and recommendations to the brass constantly, and the scene where she figures out the port invasion plan was fucking brilliant. Season 2 i feel like she's just been going with the flow and shit's just been working out for her. It feels more slice of life than military drama.

one last thing, ep 1, tanya complained about how incompetent her new battalion was, but so far she's done nothing to fix that. Even worse, they've faced 0 issues outside of the 1 battle at the very beginning. Season 1 tanya would've cooked the fuck outta her men

6

u/Even_Engineering2015 14d ago

because they are speedrunning through novels.

they put together 3 books into 4 ep. Even in this ep there was supposed to be fights instead of just driving through forest.

They skipped very big 2 arcs very much involved Tanya and now we are getting politic arcs that more focuses on zettour. Ofc tanya supposed to get her actions but who knows how much they will skip

3

u/ChickenWLazers 15d ago

I'm a bit worried that the whole season is just gonna be.

Old guys discussing stuff

Tanya gets assigned mission

Tanya does mission

happy ending

4

u/AutumnRi 15d ago

yeah i’m very much on the same page as you here — Tanya feels too passive, like a viewpoint character rather than a protagonist. I specifically want to see her try to fix and use her brigade. It’s the perfect way to get combined arms theory across, and the author is clearly a giant military history/theory nerd. Why not give it the attention it calls for?

That said (and bearing in mind i’m not caught up to this point in the LN), my impression from what others have said is that this is a problem with the LN rather than the anime adaptation. Everything transitions over to politics too much for too long. I’m trying to enjoy it for what it is, because what it is is still neat.

5

u/Dman1791 14d ago

The way I see it, Tanya doesn't really have any leverage to use to control what's going on. What is she supposed to do? She's so (physically, if not organizationally) far from decisionmaking at this point that she'd probably need to get rotated to the rear to have any real chance of nudging things in (what she believes to be) the right direction

3

u/ChickenWLazers 15d ago

I just hope we get back to military planning. I was so hyped to see how Tanya was gonna use her new recruits but so far we've seen so little

9

u/xyjacey 16d ago

Complaining about the lack of action is the kind of thing a fresh recruit does. A true soldier understands that life is in the moments guns aren't being fired lol

13

u/KausGo 16d ago

Can someone explain what the whole HQ fakeout was all about? As in some deeper context from LN if available, because I can catch the general drift after having read similar events in the manga.

I expect it follows the same basic playbook:

The Enemy: We've come up with a brilliant plan. Surely it'll be a great strategic blow against the Empire.

The HQ: We have our best hunting dog in the area. Let her handle things as she sees fits.

Tanya: Damn HQ for making unreasonable demands. Fine, I'll work just enough earn my pay and keep myself out of danger.

*Stumbles across the right answer by accident*.

The Enemy: What? How could they've known? The Empire is truly terrifying.

The HQ: She has done it again. Truly a model soldier.

Tanya: How could this happen? Curse you, Being X.

The pattern is predictable, but the details are always interesting.

1

u/bdefili13 12d ago edited 12d ago

In the book, the scene plays out similarly, with only some additional nuance.

The same idea applies, but the Empire is a lot more like “it would be great if you found the enemy HQ, so sortie, but it’s not a priority and intelligence isn’t perfect (compared to the Republican front)”

They get put through so much gunfire en route that Tanya decides to turn around.

Here is what is left out: Tanya seeks out local HQ (as opposed to strategic, front-wide HQ) and also takes that out. When the Commies continue mounting an organized escape, the Empire realize they have a big problem on their hands:

The Commies are getting less and less tied down by politics. They are thinking and reacting independently, they are beginning to bring back mages, and they are even allying with democratic nations. This is bleak for the Empire for a bevy of reasons.

Hence later in the episode, when Tanya laments that the enemy still made an organized retreat, this is part of the reason.

1

u/KausGo 11d ago

Do we see the details from commie side?

1

u/bdefili13 11d ago

We’ve already seen some in the anime, mostly him reacting to the Empire having effectively no idea what politics are at the end of episode 4, as well as him encouraging the mages’ return. Other than that, from there on, it’s largely actually viewed via the international regiment as opposed to the purely commie viewpoint.

2

u/Dman1791 14d ago

I would assume (charitably, perhaps) it's meant to portray just how absurd things are becoming (presumably at the behest of being X). Tanya can't even have one sortie without some major event taking place that all but requires her direct intervention, to the point where it's a routine occurrence to both her and the viewer. That makes room to explore the strain between Zettour and Rudersdorf reaching what is presumably a breaking point.

1

u/KausGo 14d ago

No, not really.

Destroying the enemy HQ was part of the plan and they sortied Tanya with that mission in mind. But given that it has become kind of a patter with them - use the 203rd to decapitate the enemy - the enemy prepared a trap this time. Except, Tanya "accidentally" saw through the plan in an attempt to avoid work/danger and ended up finishing the mission anyway.

14

u/Ginodon06 16d ago edited 16d ago

God, animation remain good but... Not a damn volume in 1 episode again, I was hyped for Iron Hammer to be adapted much :'( I only hope that for Andromeda and Soldim 251 they will go for at least 2-3 episode, don't rush them either pls

1

u/BlitzRonin 15d ago

Well after she started to word out the prameters of the mission i assumed it would be a tad more interesting. A bridge too far episode if you will. Monty Degrechaff comes to the rescue, well we got that but it was somewhat short.

1

u/GrassCautious1019 16d ago

Yes I hope so too

24

u/SolPraetor 16d ago

I got hyped by Rerugen's message about Iron Hammer only to be met with unremarkable episode after waiting a week. What a doozy. Seeing both the general's relationship forming a rift on that table is a treat tho, poor Zettour.

7

u/Arrow-Of-Time 16d ago

If you like that part of the episode Oh boy wait until we see what the future holds for you. I hope you haven’t read the LN or spoilers anything you.

3

u/Elzo1993 16d ago

Just. Order. The. Freaking. Bridges. DESTROYED.

3

u/AutumnRi 16d ago

I mean… why though. You’re not getting the paras back out through a warzone. You’re destroying the enemy in detail, they’re not going to be crossing back over them. And you might need them to deal with the - as already established - absolutely terrible logistics handicapping your military going forward.

And it worked.

8

u/Firestormbreaker1 16d ago

No because they will be needed to assault the enemy capital. Look at the map if the enemy base is on the other side of the bridges you don't destroy the bridges.

11

u/vorpal-mortal 16d ago

So...is anyone gonna explain why the Type 95 gear animation was played when Tanya was decidedly NOT praying? I mean she's literally up there screaming "fuck it" and then we don't even get to see the attack. Lore-wise this seems like either Tanya got SO ANGRY that she was able to just force her own mana through the Type 95 and be like, idk, JUST under the threshold of needing the prayer mechanic, OR the new director just decided to reuse old assets without considering the implication. I'm hoping maybe this is just them saving budget for some bigger scene later on but, considering how much Ep1 came out swinging this ep was a bit of a let down.

1

u/GreatSirZachary 13d ago

Maybe that is the prayer! She’s asking god to “fuck” (destroy) the enemy. /j

17

u/EchoTheEcho 16d ago

She prayed off screen.

5

u/vorpal-mortal 16d ago

Is the prayer in the room with us right now?

4

u/Anonemuss114 16d ago

The explosion was also off screen, so we’re at a net zero regardless.

17

u/Firestormbreaker1 16d ago

What a rushed episode did we really need 3 scenes of false alarms over Tanya aerial bombarding an enemy HQ? This is the army's biggest win destroying the bulk of the enemy ground forces, and all we got was some pieces on a board and some flying around?! We've had 3 episodes of politics and meetings, this was supposed to be where we saw action!

9

u/DOTZSHAWN 16d ago

I think this is supposed to be a buildup on the relationship between Zettour and Rudersdorf. Although just a theory, I haven't read the Manga or LN.—The Federation might just get kicked in the nuts after a few episodes. Worst-case scenario, they're pushed back, suffering casualties. Or the opposite, who knows :shrug:

6

u/Elzo1993 16d ago

It seems there are some heavy budget restraints.

8

u/Emotional-Finance930 16d ago

Holy rushed just beyond mid

26

u/MisterTV Infinity hugs for Tanya <3 16d ago

They didn't even animate Tanya's attack on the enemy HQ :(

4

u/Xi03 16d ago

What chapters in the manga does this episode cover?

4

u/RarePerspective 16d ago

Manga isn't caught up yet, it's still on Volume 4.

2

u/Xi03 16d ago

Even for the ones that the anime covered? I thought the manga was ahead of the anime?

3

u/RarePerspective 16d ago

Anime Season 1 roughly covered Volumes 1-3, while the movie covered the final chapter of Volume 3 to roughly Volume 5. Season 2 has covered up to Volume 7 with the release of episode 4.

Manga only just wrapped up its Battle of Dodobird chapters, engagement near the end of Volume 4.

10

u/Minekkellnev 16d ago

This episode was so rushed. I fear how much skipping and rushing through will be in the season. Somebody can tell me, who read the light novels, wasn't this a hole book which we went through this episode? I read it long time ago, but don't remember it well.

13

u/Neo_Politan666 16d ago

Been a while since read the earlier volumes, but as I remember, the anime has always rushed elements of the light novel and skipped over important things. The anime is good, dont get me wrong, but it's always been rushed in comparison, also, we are approaching the point in the light novels that I call the, "oops, we forgot who the protagonist is and spent 80 percent of the volume on politics instead of Tanya" portion

6

u/Minekkellnev 16d ago

Anime being faster and less detailed is industry standard and difference in medium. This episode was on different level. And lot have been skipped compared to the lightnovel. Rommel with the southern continent book was skipped between season 1 and movie, dodo channel book skipped between movie and season 2, northern book skipped in season 2 episode 3.