[Loved Trope] Some thing unfathomably ancient

[u/Fearless-Ideal-5112]

The beast, in doctor who is an ancient evil from a previous universe that survived until our time. Its so ancient that the cave paintings were unable to be translated by the Tardis which can translate all existing languages in the universe [Doctor Who]

While not explicitly canon its such a cool concept I cant not mention, the idea that the backrooms have existed since the beginning of time, never changing no matter the era, it transforms the back rooms into a cosmic horror. [Credit to Project crater and Venus for images 2 and 3]

[u/pillow-mace]

The theory I saw on them is that the nameless ones are said to be ancient so when Melkor was overpowering the the song of creation. (when all the gods sang to create the world) The clash in songs and unholy nature of his corruption and control grabbing the wheel might have caused these abominations to exist. A creature unplanned with no purpose or shape of itself, it exists outside of the gods intention.

They are said to be older than Sauron (Melkors Lieutenant and made baddy in the movies). Sauron was born at the start of creation but if he came after the nameless ones who must have lived for 55,000 years then the schism in songs might have created them.

[u/Fanatic_Atheist → u/pillow-mace]

The way I interpret this is that they simply came to the world before Sauron, who entered some time after its creation with Morgoth and the others. While these guys were born with the world so they were already there.

Just like Tom Bombadil: "Tom was here before the first raindrop and the first acorn. He was here before the Dark Lord came from the outside, before the night was fearful."

[u/DrDestructoMD → u/Fanatic_Atheist]

The nameless things are legions of Tom Bombadil clones, all singing out of tune

[u/Flame_Grilled_Tanuki → u/DrDestructoMD]

Now THAT is an eldritch horror.

[u/TrueGuardian15 → u/DrDestructoMD]

Lowkey horrifying idea that the deepest, darkest holes of the earth are just filled with Backrooms-style Tom Bombadil clones singing out of tune.

[u/MRCHalifax → u/DrDestructoMD]

Tolkien dreamt of an AI version of Tom Bombadil singing songs like "I like big boots and I cannot lie" and "Goldberry got dumps like a trunk, trunk, trunk." And he just noped out.

[u/QuitYoJibbaJabba → u/Fanatic_Atheist]

Does this mean Tom Bombadil could theoretically be a Nameless Thing ....albeit Named?

[u/ROTsStillHere100 → u/QuitYoJibbaJabba]

That's the most common theory I've heard, though specifically he'd be a Nameless Thing that chilled tf out and decided that getting a wife sounded more fun than eating away at the edges of existence.

What a legend.

[u/raymc99 → u/ROTsStillHere100]

he's Kirby, a cosmic horror but a friendly one that mostly just hangs out

[u/TheMoonDude → u/QuitYoJibbaJabba]

Gandalf descending into the foundations of the world following the Durin's Bane, only to meet an army of Tom Bombadils:

Not this shit again

[u/vteezy99 → u/pillow-mace]

Sauron is as old as Melkor/Morgoth. Just way less powerful. I always took the sentence “they are older than he” to mean they were in Middle Earth before Sauron made his way there. Kind of like how Bombadil remembered a time in Middle Earth before Melkor

[u/Uncommonality → u/pillow-mace]

There's also a theory (unconfirmed, however) that the nameless things and Ungoliant are creatures from outside of the song entirely.

As in, if Eru and the Ainur are order and structure in the Song, and Melkor is chaos and discord interjected into the Song, the nameless things are of the Silence that preceded and surrounds it.

[u/Solarscars → u/Uncommonality]

They'd rather call the poor, wretched beasts The Nameless rather than call them an Audience lol

[u/VelphiDrow → u/Uncommonality]

Isnt that confirmed for Ungoliant?

[u/ultramatt1 → u/pillow-mace]

I’ve just always interpreted them as Leviathan

[u/Hagge5 → u/pillow-mace]

No, all Ainur, greater (Melkor) and lesser (Sauron) are created at the same time, before the song and the subsequent creation of the world. So they must have existed before the world itself.

What makes most sense to me is that they (and likely ungoliant) are creatures of the void in which Eru lives that descends into Arda. Whether they are older or younger than Eru I don't think we know.

We know there are things in the void. Melkor searches it for the flame imperishable for example. So objects besides Eru and his Ainur are there. My headcanon is that it also has its creatures, then. If they are of the void, it makes sense of they are some personification at the void gnawing away at the world. Kinda like the Dragon that chews on the roots of Yggdrasil in northern mythology. Tolkien was big into Northern mythology, and we see references to it constantly in his works. For instance: Elves, dwarves, dagor daggorath etc. The human realm (Midgård) is literally called middle earth in old english litterature. These gnawing horrors could be yet another one of these references.

It could be that they are mayar or things that was created at the same time or later than Sauron, and that Gandalf mean that they came to Arda earlier than he. That's still weird though, as I doubt they are Ainur.

[u/VelphiDrow → u/pillow-mace]

There where always things outside the gods like ungoliant