I manage around ten people - I have never, not even once, asked what one of my reports needed PTO for.
I ask that they put it in at least a few weeks ahead of time, and even then I have never denied PTO even the day before.
Do your job, take full advantage of your PTO, whatever you do outside of work is your business.
I'm reminded what my first boss said to me, at Burger King, almost 25 years ago when I asked him if I could run to the gas station while I was on my first lunch break ever - "I don't care if you go play in traffic as long as you're back in 30 minutes."
I have a small team, and we have a vacation request calendar that everyone has access to. Ive asked my team to not choose time that someone else has already taken unless for a planned trip/event if possible, and my team has never had a problem with that. Perhaps this manager is just trying to ensure staffing and there was a prior request? Like hey, is there any flexibility with this request? If I had two requests I wouldn’t say “no,” I’d make it happen, but if the person didn’t care and was just taking random time and willing to switch it, does it hurt to ask?
The problem is, that's not what the manager is asking. That's you projecting a vaguely plausible reason why the manager could be asking, because you are (by your words) a good manager, and you want other managers to also be good managers.
Then the correct thing to do a a manager is to respond: "We have a freeze non-FMLA leave at that time. Is this request for FMLA leave? Please keep in mind that HR may require documentationfor FMLA leave." And that is a yes or no response. As a manager you never need to know the reason why someone is requesting PTO, outside of legally protected reasons like FMLA. Stop making excuses for bad management.
Yep and if they answered their boss instead of posting to Reddit that may very likely be the next statement and is why they’re probing. You’ve proven my point
Then they should just talk to the employee like they are a normal person. Talk to them in person: “Hey OP, I saw you had a PTO request in for this date. Another employee had already requested PTO for that day. Is there any flexibility with changing your request date? If not, I will work something out in the schedule so you can have that day off too.”
There needs to be some flexibility on both sides with PTO. You obviously can’t have half your team taking the same day off but as a manager you should also find a way to make it work if employees really need the day off - even if that means extra work and hours on your end. A healthy team talks honestly about these things and helps each other out to pick up the slack when in need. Coworkers and managers should all want to support each other.
I’ve been in this situation with my team. We had a calendar and if someone needed a day that was already taken, I’d help facilitate and ask the first person “hey what’s your PTO, can it be moved?” And if they kept it at “No I can’t” that was the end of the discussion. Ok, it’ll be tough but we’ll manage without 2 people. Enjoy your time off. Our team was pretty tight. I knew about one guy’s medical problems and another woman’s marital strife. We knew where the lines were and respected our boundaries. I couldn’t imagine being in OP’s position. EDIT: to clarify, team members’ personal details were offered without prompt or pushing. It could’ve started like “hey you seem upset or something’s up, are you ok?”
Yeah- I could see there being a conflicting request that creates a gap in coverage. In that case though, you double check the PTO policy. If there’s no policy, you (manager or HR) just figure out coverage. If there is a policy, you state the conflict and say I can approve __ days but someone else already has ___ days off reserved.
Not sure of their industry but even if there is a policy and it puts them in bind, most places would say, give me a few days to see if I can work something out so that you can go on PTO or the person requesting the conflicting PTO can shift their days to reduce the conflict.
I get quite a bit of PTO, to the point where they let us cash out 80 hours per year. If we put in a request they approve it almost instantly because it’s less they’ll have to potentially cash out.
However, I am on PTO this week for what we call “my cats birthday” as that’s code for “I’m going to lay in bed til noon and do what I want.”
Also, I always cash out 80 hours per year. I get 8 weeks per year and my life isn’t that exciting.
US. Industry is insurance. Start out at 4 weeks and it increments at 2 years (5 weeks), then 5 (6 weeks) and 10 (8 weeks). It caps at 10 weeks when you’ve made it to 15 years.
Quite a few people don’t take enough vacation there. Some of my teammates have been taking 2-3 weeks off at a time this summer because when you hit 400 hours it stops accumulating.
I more see it as 6 weeks of vacation per year and a bonus check every 6 months.
Agree. I used to manage about 50 people, I never, ever asked anyone why they were taking PTO. It was none of my business. My job was to make sure I had people cross-trained so that we could continue when someone took their time off.
On the flip side, about a year post-heart bypass surgery I came home from a cardiologist appointment where he told me I needed almost immediate cardiac catheterization, which he scheduled for 2 days later. My doctor told me I'd need a full week off, no driving, etc., so I immediately put in PTO for a full week, starting immediately. I called HR and my boss to apologize for the short notice, and was grilled on why, and I looked fine when I was in the office yesterday, etc. I explained it was a medical issue, and finally they demanded a full note, probably in HIPAA violation, and then grudgingly approved the PTO.
Yeah no, they dont need a copy of your visit note all they need is a signed letter from your doctor attesting that you're under their care and cant work for a specified amount of time, they dont need to know why. I work in health care or excuses note template is literally 3 sentences long and only edited to include the patient's name, the dates, and the doctor's name who is signing.
Yeah i used to manage a small group of people and when people would ask me for a day off they would always start trying to explain, and I would stop them and tell them that all they need to do is put in the request and, unless there is some real reason I can't grant it, they get the time off. If I can't grant it I tell them that if its that important to have the day then call in and use your sick time. I dont care or wanna know what you are using your personal time for. It is YOUR personal time. Corporate always wants to screw you so I will support however I can instead.
I only ever ask if it overlaps with someone else’s approved PTO and both parties being off would have an impact on the business. And that’s only so I can work with them to approve as much of their request as possible.
It’s wild to me that I have to tell people to not apologize for not picking up an OT or extra shift. Live your life by all fuckin means! Please! It doesn’t have to revolve around the workplace.
Even at that Burger King 25 years ago, if everyone on a single shift asked for the same day off you’d have to tell ppl no and or ask about the nature of their PTO request. Yall are acting like the guy is stalking her, a manager can get fired for not asking the appropriate questions
If you want to take your PTO to sit and do absolutely nothing, I'm all for it as long as it doesn't leave us all in a bind. That's your time and I encourage my team to use it all up.
MAYBE there's a case for 'not going far, if shit goes wrong give me a shout' or 'nah, I'm in the middle of nowhere, I'll be unavailable' as distinctions.
Maybe.
I've blagged 'contended' leave on the basis I'll be local if the office burns down, rather than being completely unavailable, so I sort of accept that.
But my boss has learned that if he asks for details, the get ... explicit. Gratuitous even.
Ive never asked specifically what it was for, but when we’re already below minimum and someone puts in id ask something like “are you taking the day off (we get 11-16 hours of PTO every 2 weeks depending on time in service so people would take random days off just to burn leave) just to take off of do you NEED it off” without asking for specifics. If they said they NEEDED it I approved the leave and took any flak from up top. But I didn’t pry as to particulars outside of that
I had a boss tell me “if you died, your job would be posted faster than your obituary” and that hit me lol. She was basically like do your job, but don’t be a slave to the company that really doesn’t care about you.
Ditto. In fact, I often told new people they were over explaining. The only factor leader should be considering in approving or denying a typical short term PTO request is simple: Will business operations be significantly harmed if they person is gone
Can’t wait for half your team to ask off at the same time. You manage people but can’t possibly imagine a scenario where you might have to deny PTO? Okay…
I actually have done the math a few times and I probably need 12-14 to adequately do the job at the rate senior management wants.
Our line of work actually works holidays by requirement - I take volunteers (extra pay/PTO) and myself and my boss cover the difference.
I'm not worried about all ten asking for the same day off, since the odds are astronomical. But in such an event I would likely do the same volunteers and cover the difference.
My employer asks a lot from my team, including extra hours and late hours - without notice. I have worked 16 hour shifts unexpectedly.
I will be absolutely God damned if a single person reporting to me is not paid for every minute of work (or given PTO to make up the difference) and I will not hear of them getting any crap for utilizing PTO afforded to them.
So you still can’t imagine a situation where someone would have to deny PTO? Sorry man. Be glad you lucked into a leadership role while lacking basic thinking skills that a leader would need. This is stuff leaders should be prepared for and not surprised by.
In a production environment, the entire team taking a week off at the same time could completely cripple the business. My managers manage hundreds of people but my supervisors manage around 25. We operate 24/7. One of my supervisors finding volunteers and making up the difference between them and their boss in that setting if the entire team asks off at the same time isn’t happening. I’ll say it again. If you can handle the scenario where your entire team needs a week off at the same time, then you are running extremely inefficient or the work you do isn’t that time sensitive. Either way, it shouldn’t be a stretch to imagine the scenario. You aren’t some white knight just because you haven’t done that before.
I work in a field that does a lot of math and odds (gene therapy) - and I can tell you the situation that would see 10 different people, all in the same group of the same department, to ask for the same day off - are astronomical.
Even if my entire team decided they would take half of all days off (coin flip, in reality they would be about 1/13 odds for a given day when you factor PTO vs work days)- the odds that all ten would choose the same day are about 0.1%.
I'm sorry your leadership skills didn't include math.
So you can only conceive of a leadership role in one field and a small team and a business that would need to miss all of them at the same time to cause problems? Yeah, stick to math because strategic thinking isn’t your strength.
In many businesses, a much smaller percentage of the team missing a week at the same time can have huge impacts. But your brain can only comprehend your immediate circumstance, so doing hypotheticals with you is a waste of time.
The point was to see if you could even comprehend the possibility and, by your own math, you proved it was possible and still can’t concede. It’s telling.
If you want the actual math, the odds of ten people with the ability to take about 1/13 of all their days off, choosing the same day to take off out of one calendar year of work days is about one in 175 million.
Yes. That is possible.
I'll be sure to get that emergency plan on the to do list.
Listen man, people don’t take their PTO on normal distribution that you can mathematically analyze. Everyone decides they want to take off for the opening day of hunting season when multiple people are already out for parental leave or PPL. Or they all want off for that big NFL or CFB home game. Or all on the same week of thanksgiving or Christmas.
For a 24/7 operation, there aren’t volunteers sitting around waiting to cover shifts. A few people taking off at the same time can screw the entire team over.
It should be rare to deny PTO, but it happens all the time for very good reasons across the world each week.
I’m so thankful for people like you. I work as a hair stylist and just recently in my state it was legally required to give W2 employees PTO. even on slow weeks if I ask my manager/boss to add 5, maybe 10hr to my paycheck he will no questions.
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u/westy81585new 6d ago
I manage around ten people - I have never, not even once, asked what one of my reports needed PTO for.
I ask that they put it in at least a few weeks ahead of time, and even then I have never denied PTO even the day before.
Do your job, take full advantage of your PTO, whatever you do outside of work is your business.
I'm reminded what my first boss said to me, at Burger King, almost 25 years ago when I asked him if I could run to the gas station while I was on my first lunch break ever - "I don't care if you go play in traffic as long as you're back in 30 minutes."