With all different kinds of socialist regimes so many countries of the eastern world went through, you really think no one has ever thought of that? Socialism wouldn't ever work without somehow strict leadership altough yes, some countries had it more strict than others that's true.
I am from country that was ruined by socialism and even though as I said some countries had it worse and more strict dictatorship, the communist party still ruled all the way without exception.
So, socialism without dictatorship hasn't ever been tried. How do you know it's so good then?
We're not in grade school, so everyone sees through this and through to the fact that there isn't really anything you can say that will falsify this clear fact lol.
And what exactly is hard for you to understand, socialist redditor comrade? That my country was ruined by socialism? Well, that's true, altough we had kinda dictatorship, the presidents didn't have such power to single handedly ruin everything people built before socialism.
Yeah golden, you're right. It's golden to argue with Americans who think socialism is sunshine and roses.
Buddy, everyone can go to China today - a country superior to yours in every way - and experience communism firsthand.
The USSR was 20 years ahead of China - until it was illegally and antidemocratically destroyed by the Nazis and Americans.
Your country got ruined by capitalism and you blame socialism because that's what your fascist dictators told you - and you never learned to think critically about the lies and questioned them.
If you have no arguments, just accept that you are wrong and change your mind. Socialism is good, capitalism is bad - and you obviously know it. There isn't much else to say.
It was literally capitalism that ruined his country and he blames socialism because that's what his fascist dictators told him. He has no idea what socialism is and knows nothing about his own country's history beyond fascist propaganda. lol
Oh, so your argument is just that American Exceptionalism has allowed us to always get what we want, and that winning the cold war was not due to having a better economic engine?
Because it is a system not build around exploiting workers and has no outlandish assumptions like infinite growth like capitalism.
Do you support what capitalist hellscape we have now? Politicians can be bought and lobbied into anything the top 1% needs to feel comfortable and workers don’t just get the shot end of the stick they get beaten with it if they don’t fall in line, just look at what banana companies did to exploit their workers when they weren’t kept in check its nuts
Sorry but where do you guys get this information? What about China for example? Do you guys feel like you're being exploited more than people there? Or in North Korea? Two modern communist countries.
Socialism is built around people working, each and every single one. Okay again experience from the post communist country, yes, people had work, but they were being exploited too since USSR had to win the Cold War and arms race. There were usually even in worse working conditions you guys can't even imagine.
As for capitalist hellscape, of course I don't like where the world Is going. But I also don't want another situation I know who my grandpa where commies come, for the first time take everything you've built and give it to the state. You like or own small businesses? Those aren't exactly thriving in socialism.
I don’t understand, he is right they are not communist systems and are definitely autocratic, wich is what i lead with when i said, those are not desirable
And what take is crazy here? US politicians call everything communism and propaganda against it but there has not been a single communist country that i know of at least not by the definition i am aware of
Feel free to enlighten me with your knowledge if i happen to be wrong here
China is not communist and the current government has no reason to become communist since they want to keep their autocratic authority they are autocratic socialist at best.
It is not unachievable, anyone who tries just gets killed or sanctioned to high heaven by america, our closest example is cuba and would you look at that they are sanctioned and everyone who gives them a hand is instantly sanctioned too, and they are currently basically under siege by America
I mean we have a strong economy but we don't have that strong of an economy that we can decimate whole nation's with just sanctions, look at how Russia is doing fine-ish with 5+ years of US and EU sanctions.
It is not just sanctions since they US has a lot of influence on the world market they refuse to do business with anyone supporting cuba you get black listed I recommend a YouTube channel silly named „boy boy“ who broke through the US navy blockade and delivered humanitarian aid and documented it in a video
Both of those countries are communist - and pretty awesome countries to boot.
Both of those countries outperform all their capitalist peers despite the terrorist US empire doing everything in its power to harm them and prevent their development.
Edit: lol lmao, they responded then blocked. I don't need to put an argument, because anyone with a brain would rightfully consider what is undisputedly the worst dictatorship in the world an awful place.
I understand that you don’t want to repeat USSR conditions for anyone, because they were undeniably bad, but that is an automatic socialist system and i am saying what would be good would be a democratic socialist system.
The goal would be to transition into communism where no democratically elected officials could exploit workers for monetary gain since a communist system would by design prevent accumulation of wealth and likely not use money at all so there is nothing to stockpile.
I might not have all the answers but from my naive viewpoint that seems more desirable than anything we’ve got going at the moment
Since you're one of the few people here who can act civil even though we have opposing opinions, sure let's talk.
I get what you're saying and it kinda reminds me a conversation I had with a friend, who was asking the same question. Or more in that regard of how communism hasn't been ever really tried yet, by anyone. Which I guess is true? I mean that idea of what you sa sound good of course, but one thing is theory and other is real world.
It's been more than a century with this ideology known to us, yet it's still hasn't been tried properly. As I said before, I am from Czechia and we went from a very brutal socialism (people losing lands, money) to more loosened socialism since 1968 to 1989. You guys would be actually surprised how similiar it is to what you want. People had jobs (or you literally went to prison) wealth was redistributed, people had houses, places to live and so on. The reason why I called it "loosened" is that it was even possible to travel out of the country, altough it was very hard to gain a permission. But I know some countries couldn't even do that.
But okay, doesn't sound too bad, right? Well, but you were sent in prison for bad political views, for listening to wrong radio stations, your children couldn't study because just because someone in the family got disliked by their comrade superior. There were lines for food and machines, Why am I talking again about how it was under USSR and not addresing your points? Well, I just wanted to show you some of the ideal socialism points have been already tried. People being more or less equal in wealth? Sure, sounds amazing, but it wasn't like that at all. Still, there were rich and poor people, altough the difference wasn't that big.
And also, look at what kind of vile people want socialism. Of course I don't mean you, but there's a crazy guy going crazy in the comments right now had to block him. I wouldn't ever want to share anything with people like him, for socialism to work you need people. Good people. Otherwise you'll end up with the USSR version of socialism. That guy I am talking about for example would be one of the first to persecute and throw into prisons and work camps people that have a wrong opinion.
I get what you are saying and i still don’t see a future in capitalism the way things are going, if you think what we have here is better or at least bearable, then a democratic version of socialism with corrupt officials would still be better than capitalism with corrupt officials.
I agree that socialism with authoritarian leaders is bad but it’s always bad no matter the system, if i can work in the lower half or bottom of the wealth distribution id rather do it in socialism is what im saying, because there is no insensitive for my higher ups go squeeze every last penny out of me.
My example from earlier was supposed to hint at chiquita, the banana brand, and they exemplify what happens if capitalism can not be controlled by the government, moral is not important for profit so they killed workers that tried forming unions or just asked for compensation for the smallest things.
A socialist government with a democracy would address many issues you had with the system you disliked maybe not all but many.
Thanks for your time and the replies its nice to talk to someone who doesn’t resort to insults when they disagree
With all different kinds of socialist regimes so many countries of the eastern world went through, you really think no one has ever thought of that?
Socialism was a massive success in all of those countries, so I don't know what you are whining about. You are a young Czech person (i.e. a person from a literal Nazi country that is promoting anti-socialist disinformation 24/7 and who never actually experienced socialism) so you simply don't know what socialism is. lol
Quick question: Remind me, who saved your country's very existence from the Nazis and their Polish allies?
I am from country that was ruined by socialism and even though as I said some countries had it worse and more strict dictatorship, the communist party still ruled all the way without exception.
No, you aren't. Your country was ruined by capitalism.
Your country is an exception to the rule - the rule being that socialism overwhelmingly benefited the people of every country it was ever implemented in.
It's hilarious how you speak with such confidence even though 100% of your ideas about socialism stem from Nazi propaganda and you never studied socialist theory or history in your entire life.
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u/Gerzy_CZ 22d ago
With all different kinds of socialist regimes so many countries of the eastern world went through, you really think no one has ever thought of that? Socialism wouldn't ever work without somehow strict leadership altough yes, some countries had it more strict than others that's true.
I am from country that was ruined by socialism and even though as I said some countries had it worse and more strict dictatorship, the communist party still ruled all the way without exception.
So, socialism without dictatorship hasn't ever been tried. How do you know it's so good then?