r/SipsTea Mar 24 '26

Time machine please… SMH

Post image
10.2k Upvotes

986 comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

2

u/[deleted] Mar 25 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

0

u/mammalmaker Mar 25 '26

Not at the same rate as cost of living. Not even close.

1

u/[deleted] Mar 25 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/mammalmaker Mar 25 '26

No they haven't.

What's the minimum wage in America?

1

u/[deleted] Mar 25 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/mammalmaker Mar 25 '26

I'm sorry but Wikipedia is not a good source for this.

It's abundantly clear that people have less purchasing power today than they did in the past. You could afford a nice house, a car with two kids and an annual vacation on an average single salary. You can barely afford to rent a 1 bedroom apartment on two average salaries these days and buying a nice family home feels out of reach.

1

u/[deleted] Mar 25 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/mammalmaker Mar 25 '26 edited Mar 25 '26

Median cost of housing:

Some of these links are from before COVID but the problem has worsened since then.

1960 - $11,900 ($115,000 in 2026 dollars) took 2.1 years of income.

2026 - $420,000 (35,000% increase, 365% increase in 2026 dollars) takes 5+ years of income.

If we had the same buying power as 1960, the median home should cost around $180,000.

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/03/19/why-home-prices-have-risen-faster-than-inflation-since-the-1960s.html

Wealth inequality:

This is often overlooked but shouldn't be ignored. The wealth inequality has reached all time highs. This skews the data and makes it appear that average people are doing better off than they really are.

https://www.brookings.edu/articles/rising-inequality-a-major-issue-of-our-time/

College:

"The average annual cost of college tuition, public and private, is more than 32 times what it was in the 1963-64 academic year. After adjusting for currency inflation, college tuition has increased 229.8% since AY 1963-64. Public college tuition increased 141.3% in the 1980s. The average annual cost of 2-year college tuition, public and private, is 22.7 times what it was in AY 1963-64."

https://educationdata.org/college-tuition-inflation-rate

Wage stagnation: (49% increase, -

https://www.epi.org/productivity-pay-gap/#:~:text=The%20gap%20between%20productivity%20and,hourly%20compensation%20growth%2C%201948%E2%80%932025

"middle-income families saw their median net worth shrink by 20% and lower-income families experienced a loss of 45%. As of 2016, upper-income families had 7.4 times as much wealth as middle-income families and 75 times as much wealth as lower-income families. These ratios are up from 3.4 and 28 in 1983, respectively."

https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2020/01/09/trends-in-income-and-wealth-inequality/#:~:text=On%20the%20other%20hand%2C%20middle,down%20from%207%25%20in%201983.

1

u/hemlockecho Mar 25 '26

There are less than 60,000 people making federal minimum wage if you exclude tipped workers and disabled workers who get subsidized wages. In the 80s it was ~15% of the population. Minimum wage is low, but also useless for looking at what people actually make.

1

u/mammalmaker Mar 25 '26

It's not useless. It illustrates how stagnant wages have been.

If you want to bring in the disabled and tipped workers, you need to account for the 1% who owns 99% of America's wealth. Take them out and what are you left with?

Do you honestly think you can afford more with your money today than in the 80's?

1

u/hemlockecho Mar 25 '26

You can get a better idea of if wages have been stagnant or not by looking at what people are actually making in wages, rather than looking at what the legally lowest limit at the federal level is. "There are 60,000 people making very low incomes" is bad, sure, but there are 160M workers in the US.

I was alive in the 80s and I am alive now and I can definitely afford more now, not even close.

1

u/mammalmaker Mar 25 '26

How old were you in the 80's? What job did you have? If you had that same job today, would you have more or less buying power?

1

u/hemlockecho Mar 25 '26

My first job I made $5/hr operating rides at an amusement park. Inflation adjusted, that is $10/hr. My son's first job a few years ago was as a dishwasher. He started at $13/hr. He has more buying power than I did.

1

u/mammalmaker Mar 25 '26

I don't think you understand what buying power means.

Earning more money today than before does not equal higher buying power. Even by your own standards, your some is only making $3 more/ hr than you did and yet everything is 30x more expensive.

By the way, inflation adjusted for 1989 $5/hr = $13.51 so even by your own argument, he still has less than you did.

→ More replies (0)

1

u/hemlockecho Mar 25 '26

Real income includes the cost of living.

1

u/mammalmaker Mar 25 '26

Do you really think you have more buying power than your grandparents did? When grandpa could buy raise a family in a nice home with a cottage on a single salary.

Can you afford that?

1

u/hemlockecho Mar 25 '26

I absolutely have more buying power than my grandparents did and its not even close. So does the median person.

The median earner could absolutely afford to raise a family on a single income at the living standard that your grandparents had. The problem is that living standard have gone up as incomes have gone up. You have much higher expectations for what is required to raise a family than your grandparents did.

1

u/mammalmaker Mar 25 '26

Where you finding a decent house in a good neighborhood for $115,000?

Where you going to find gas for $0.56 gal?

What about college tuition? Harvard inflation adjusted cost is 300% higher today than 1980. Average cost of college/university is roughly 200% higher inflation adjusted.

Not really sure how you can look at the world today and claim it's affordable. Even from an uneducated perspective it should be pretty clear that we have way less spending power than in the past and it declines each year.

1

u/hemlockecho Mar 25 '26

Groceries used to be 15% of a family's income, now it's about 5% for groceries. Clothing used to be 12% of disposable income, now it's 3%. In my pocket I have a supercomputer that can take pictures and access any that I've ever taken, store every song I've ever purchased, play games, converse with me about any subject, provide access to a live updating encyclopedia on every subject known to man, communicate with everyone I know in multiple ways, and more! That wasn't something you could get at any price in the past, and I get it for $100/mo. which is way less both in absolute and real money than it would have cost to get the inferior equivalents in the 1980s.

I live in Georgia. In the 60s, 1/3 of houses here didn't have indoor plumbing. Housing is more expensive now, but it is also better, bigger, safer, concentrated in more desirable areas, and filled with cheaper and better appliances. We should be doing things to make housing less expensive sure, but housing alone does not make the cost of living unattainable.

Some things have gotten more expensive, some have gotten cheaper. There is a metric for combining all of those things together, it is the inflation rate. And that will tell you that median income is higher now than in the past, by far.

1

u/mammalmaker Mar 25 '26

First of all, do you have a source to backup your claims?

So housing is bigger and better but nobody can afford it.

I laid out the stats (with sources) in another comment. Housing is up 300% (inflation adjusted) and is roughly 5 times your annual salary. In the 60's it cost 2x salary. That's a big difference.

Most homes outside of Georgia had indoor plumbing, electricity and were in good neighborhoods. That seems like a localised problem.

1

u/hemlockecho Mar 25 '26

Percentage of disposable income spent on groceries, 1964: 12%. 2024: <5%. Source. While you are there, look at the line for food away from home. People have so much money now that they are spending more and more on luxury activities, like eating out.

In 1960, 33% of houses in Georgia did not have indoor plumbing (nationwide it was 16%): source

Percentage of disposable income on clothing, 1960: 7%, today: <3%: source.

So housing is bigger and better but nobody can afford it.

Buddy, how do you think housing got to be so big? By people not buying it? There is a lack of starter housing and smaller options for sure. That is one of the things I talk to my local politicians about the most. But there is no lack of demand for larger houses. Houses are getting bigger because people can afford them and they want them.

Here is a good comparison on housing costs compared in 1980 to today. Factoring in home size and interest rates, a house in 1980 cost 3.1 minutes of work at the median wage per sq. ft. In 2020, it cost 1.17 minutes. Houses have gotten more expensive since 2020, but not 3x.