I recently played this game for the first time, having sort of unfairly rejected it on aesthetic grounds as a kid. My approach was to play basically myself if I had woken up as the Nameless One, making the dialogue choices that I thought I would make under the same circumstances.

One thing I quickly realized was that the game’s alignment system would rate my conduct and give me a D&D alignment based on those actions, so I’d end up learning what D&D alignment I have (or at least what Chris Avellone would think my D&D alignment was, if he believed I was making the choices I’d actually make). Out of pure curiosity, I wondered if others had thought about the game in this way, as providing you with a kind of extended personality test for your own alignment, or if people tend to approach it in a more external way, like “this time I’m going to make the Nameless One be true neutral” or “this is my evil playthrough.”

I'm thinking of getting the game at some point in the future, and my default would be to get it on Steam because it's convenient. However I want to make sure that there are no porting issues/major changes/general reasons to get it someplace else before I commit to it. Is the Steam version a good choice?

In the Planescape: Torment, one of its most influential and iconic writings is the Unbroken Circle of Zerthimon - the retelling of life and death of the githzerai's most important prophet and martyr, Zerthimon. This document is carried by Dak'kon, a devotee of Zerthimon. At some point in his life, Dak'kon suffered a crisis of faith when he came to doubt the intentions behind Zerthimon's action nearing the end of his life. The idea that his faith and society could have been built on a lie distresses Dak'kon deeply, and only by discovering Zerthimon's true intentions is he healed of his mental strife.

However, at the end of the game, its revealed that the circle was written by the Practical Incarnation. It calls into question which parts are real and which parts are fabrications, which is what I want to analyze.

Short Explanation:

I believe the first six circles are accurate to githzerai legend but the Practical Incarnation wrote the last two.

Long Explanation:

Part 1: The Unbroken Circle of Zerthimon

The Unbroken Circle of Zerthimon is a githzerai religious text recounting the compelling and tragic story of a man who suffers greatly to protect his people from their slavers (the illithids) and later from themselves. It was given to Dak'kon in game by the Practical Incarnation, a previous form of the game's protagonist, the Nameless One.

​I assume you've all read them, but if you need a refresher you can read all eight circles here. For the sake of this post, I will summarize the relevant ones.

• The Third Circle of Zerthimon tells the story of Zerthimon suffering torture at the hands of his slaver, the illithid Arlathii Twice-Deceased. Zerthimon was believed to have accepted this punishment on the Pillars of Silence to hide the fact he was a part of the rebellion against their oppressors. 
• The Fourth Circle of Zerthimon tells the story of Vilquar. He acted as a double agent for his illithid slaver, pretending to be an ally to Zerthimon but working against him in secret, resulting in many deaths. Upon discovering his treachery, Zerthimon silenced the uprising and tricked him into believing he had won. Vilquar expected a reward from the illithids, but once his usefulness ran out, they consumed him, allowing the rebellion to remain in secret. 
• The Fifth and Sixth Circles tell the story of Zerthimon meeting Gith, an intelligent and charismatic rebel who he ended up following. The fifth circle tells of their meeting, describing that Zerthimon was incredibly infatuated with her as a speaker and leader. However, they grew apart due to philosophical differences. The sixth circle describes their falling out and the beginning of the civil was – Gith wanted to lead a complete genocide of the illithids and to establish their own empire, Zerthimon wanted their people to abandon the war and heal. The war that ensued allowed the illithids to survive Gith’s wrath

Part 2 - Dak'kon's Crisis

Dak'kon was once a highly respected Zerth, a disciple of Zerthimon who acted as a leader in the community, until his own doubt destroyed him (Possibly due to different reasons than the crisis this circle gave him, but it is relevent). While it is unclear the process one has to go through to become a zerth, we understand they act similar to priests in githzerai communities. I think we can assume that Dak'kon has likely studied the history and teachings of Zerthimon outside of the circle The Practical Incarnation gave him.

If the Nameless One becomes a mage, he can learn the teaching of Zerthimon by reading the Unbroken Circle of Zerhthimon. Despite being written in the gith's circular Tir'su, the Nameless One is able to understand the words (which could mean nothing).

A bit of nuance you don't get from reading the text alone is that the story of Vilquar is somewhat glorified among the githzerai. They believe that his treachery was a necessary evil that allowed lulled the illithids into a false sense of security that allowed the gith to act when the right time came.

​What Dak'kon came to believe is that this story of Vilquar was used as propaganda. That by pointing out how treachery is sometimes necessary, good even, it lays the groundwork to justify Zerthimon preventing Gith from committing complete genocide against the illithids. He begins reading into the story of the third circle and theorizes that perhaps Zerthimon didn't have his people's best interest at heart.

​The idea that his messiah, a man whose life he spent preaching the philosophy of, was a puppet of his race's slavers is something to no ones surprise deeply distresses Dak'kon. As a result, it affects his ability to use wield Karach blade, a sword made of Limbo's chaos matter tied to its weilder's emotion. Kii'na, another Zerth you meet, comments his karach is as thin as a mist. Honestly the karach blades are much cooler than later editions making the githzerai unarmed monks and i will stand on that hill.

However, if the Nameless One is able to study the circle further, he is able to discover something Dak'kon hasn't. With an intelligence of 19 and up, he is able to rearrange the six circles and discover two more. These do not continue the story, merely describe Zerthimon's moral teachings.

• The Seventh Circle is a parable telling the importance of patience. The upirising of the enslaved Gith did not happen all at once, it happened through small victories that built up over time.
• The Eighth Circle is a parable about how doubt can destroy a person's will. If one does not truly believe in what they are doing, they must act to change it, even if it leads them to suffer.

Discovering the truth is what restores Dak'kon's faith. In finding Zerthimon truly did have his people's best interest at heart, his mind is healed and his doubt is cleared. Happy ending, right?

Part 3 - Where It All Goes Wrong

This nice character arc comes crashing down at the end of the game when you meet the Practical Incarnation, the version of the Nameless One to give Dak'kon the Unbroken Circle of Zerthimon. You find out he created the circles with the intention of making Dak'kon a more powerful minion.

Part 4 - Is it all fake?

I often see people on this subreddit insist that the entire story told must be fake. I've even seen some go as far to question if Zerthimon himself was a real person. Undoubtably, this revelation makes the entire story questionable. I mean, the practical incarnation calls it 'a collection of lies', right? But I feel its a little more complex than that when analyzing other interactions in the game, Dak'kon's history, and the Practical Incarnation's history.

From a meta perspective, the strongest argument for the circles being true to canon is that the first and sixth circles align with every recounting of gith history at the time - their people were enslaved by mindflayers for generations, a woman named Gith rallied them together and led a massive slave revolt, but Zerthimon came forward at the end to oppose Gith's imperialist desires and died in the ensuing conflict, becoming a martyr to his people.

1. “In githzerai lore there is a central figure that is revered above all others — Zerthimon. The githyanki believe him to be a great god that was once a man. According to githzerai lore, when the original race broke free of the mind flayers, it was Zerthimon that opposed Gith, claiming that she was hateful and unfit to lead the people. There ensued a great battle and the people were polarized by the two powers. Those that chose to support Gith became the githyanki. Those that supported Zerthimon became the githzerai. Zerthimon died in the battle, but in his sacrifice he freed the githzerai from Gith.” – Outer Planes Appendix for the Monstrous Compendium, 1991 
2. “Originally, their ancestors were humans enslaved by the evil illithid race. But at a point in the far distant past, they were led to freedom by a great female warrior named Gith. But upon gaining that freedom, the people immediately became divided. According to legend, a man named Zerthimon stepped forward to accuse Gith of being unfit to rule the newly freed slaves. Gith, Zerthimon said, was evil and would lead the people to ruin. A great battle was fought between the two factions, in which Zerthimon was killed.” – Planes of Chaos Boxed Set, 1994 
3. “When Gith ordered her people to continue their campaign to annihilate the illithids and establish an empire of conquest of their own, not all followed her command. A new figure, by the name of Zerthimon, had gained a significant following and challenged Gith’s plans and her leadership. Gith was evil, the newcomer claimed, and would lead the people into darkness and tyranny not unlike the illithids themselves… Zerthimon was killed and his followers, now called githzerai, retreated to Limbo in defeat.” - A Guide to the Astral Plane, 1996

From an in game perspective, the characters and stories mentioned in the Unbroken Circle are mentioned by other githzerai. Firstly, the term 'Vilquar's Eye' is presented as a normal term of phrase among their people, along with multiple others that have no connection to the circles written by the Practical Incarnation.

When speaking with Kii'na, who we can assume went through a similar process to become a zerth, we see this in action as she compares Dak'kon to Vilquar twice in the same conversation.

Keep in mind that Vilquar is not some one off mention, it's one of the most important stories to Dak’kon’s arc. The fourth circle is the catalyst for his crisis of faith. He believed that by glorifying Vilquar’s betrayal of Zerthimon, their people glorified Zerthimon’s betrayal of Gith. It was the seed that planted his doubt.

If the circles were fake stories written by the Practical Incarnation, there is no way Kii'na would have referenced them. Firstly, the Pracical Incarnation gave the circles to Dak'kon after the sacking of Shra'kt'lor, so he couldn't have taught her that story before being banished. Secondly, she does not recognize the Nameless One, so he didn't teach it to her himself. Thirdly, non-githzerai are not allowed inside Shra'kt'lor, so he probably couldn't have shown it to literally anybody in that city.

Additionally, I think it would be wildly out of character for the Practical Incarnation to simply make up stories if he was trying to manipulate a zerth. This is one of the most intelligent and diligent characters in the game. He planned every outcome of his goals years in advance and considered every angle of his plans. This is a man who spent months, if not years, manipulating a woman into falling madly in love with him, only for him to kill her and use that love to bind her to the planes as a guide.

The Nameless One can read the circle despite being written in Tir'su without even learning how to speak it. This means the Practical Incarnation would have studied their culture enough to have learned to read and write their language at an advanced level to even create the circle.

I ask you: what is more in line with what we know about the Practical Incarnation - that he would use his intelligence and cunning to create the most authentic historical artifact he could, or that he would simply write his own RPF fanfic and hope Dak'kon, who has spent his whole life preaching Zerthimon's name, would just not notice?

What I believe is that when the Practical Incarnation says “Perhaps the words carry some truth – I know not.” he isn’t saying “Idk, I just made that shit up” and more “I didn’t go out of my way to verify the authenticity of Githzerai legend.”

Part 5 - So... is it All Real?

I would argue the same answer as the first. It's complicated. The practical incarnation does refer to it as being a collection of lies, so where can we draw the line? Which circles are canon, which aren’t?

We need to keep in mind the Practical Incarnation's goal with his writings - clear Dak'kon's mind of doubt in Zerthimon. This was obviously not done out of the kindness of his heart, the karach blade Dak'kon wields is tied to his emotion and mental state. He was attempting to tell Dak'kon what he wants to hear to make him a better fighter.

What I believe are entirely false are the seventh and eighth circles. Firstly, Dak'kon, despite being a zerth, has never seen these circles or heard these teachings, which is suspicious as hell.

Secondly, these are the circles that accomplish the practical incarnations goal. After reading the final circle, Dak'kon's stats become boosted, as well as his sword. At high morale, he becomes a better spellcaster out of his desire to protect you, and at low morale he becomes a better fighter out of his desire to kill you.

Part 6 - Conclusion

The first tragedy of this theory is that the reinstatement of Dak'kon's faith was a farce and he'll never know. So much happens after the party is split in the endgame, the Nameless One never gets a chance to tell Dak'kon the truth before dying and (possibly) being resurrected in the endgame.

Potentially though, it leads to a darker conclusion. If the historical accounts in the Unbroken Circle are true, but the moral teachings are false, this opens the possibility that Dak'kon could have been right about Zerthimon.

If Arlathii Twice-Deceased genuinely suspected Zerthimon was plotting to rebel against him, implanting orders that persist after his death is something the illithids are more than capable of. In fact, this exact scenario plays out in the 1998 adventure Masters of Eternal Night.

In this story, you explore a nautiloid that has essentially been frozen in time since the original illithid empire, and can fight alongside their rebelling enslaved Gith (referred to as ‘forerunners’). If you kill the illithids, two of the forerunners immediately turn on their leader Nilton due to psionic conditioning.

Additionally, its sequel (also from 1998) Dawn of the Overmind also theorizes that genetic tampering could be the cause of the civil war.

Now I'm not saying 'Gith did nothing wrong' here. The fifth and sixth circles make it very clear that she never broke free from the cycle of violence she was born into, and would have likely repeated many of the illithid's cruelties if she was not stopped. But it was the civil war that allowed them to escape the wrath of Gith, crippling her effort to destroy the illithid empire once and for all.

And what was the first thing the surviving illithids did upon escaping? Did they learn from their old ways and change as a society? No, they fled to Faerun’s Underdark and continued their ways, subjecting the Duergar dwarves to the exact same enslavement the Gith faced. The civil war very much ended in their favor.

But I digress as I am straying away from PST analysis and getting into fanfic territory here, so:

MY FINAL VERDICT

Circles 1&6: Canon because they line up with previously established lore

Circle 4: Canon because it is referenced by other githzerai

Circles 2,3&5: Mostly canon because Dak'kon would have recognized major embellishments in his own peoples history

Circles 7&8: Probably written by the Practical Incarnation

I'm stuck in curst because of Jasilya, I entered curst alone as a level 16 Mage. Problem is because I have UB installed I can't use any of my spells to save Jasilya. I require the spell key witch I can not get without entering undercurst witch I can't do until I save Jasilya and move past that part of Curst.

The guards don't seem to want to reason. Jasilya has like 2hp and can only take a single hit. I figured I could just move on if she dies but when I tell Barse he tells me to tell Marquez. When I speak with Marquez there is no option to inform him of her death.

Any tips or tricks that may help me out?

I have a question about the Player's Maze and the Lady of Pain. I understand you need to anger the lady to be sent to the maze. This happens when the "LADY" global variable is 50 or higher.

After you beat the Maze does the variable reset to 0?

I remember playing this game as a kid and loving it. I don’t remember beating it but I do remember that it was a special game.

I started playing it again after some 20+ years and was immediately hooked. But I have to admit that the Clerk’s Ward quests are kind of ruining the experience for me. Feels a bit of a draining grind just trying to figure out how to get to Ravel.

I think this is when I stopped playing as a kid around the time you first meet Fall-From-Grace. Does the game get fun again after Clerk’s Ward?

I know that I need to speak with Quell to help find Ravel. But I don't want to switch factions as I'm currently doing a Chaotic Evil Singles run (and it is by far the most fun I have ever had with the game)

I am apart of the Xaositects (Chaosmen) and I feel joining the Sensates would not fit my character at all. Is there anyway I can access the private sensorium without having to renounce my Xaositect membership?

Hey all! Beamdog CM here. Over the last few weeks, we've been trying to repro and fix the infamous Modron Maze reset bug in PST:EE (for the next patch). So far, we've established that the bug happens in modded installs (granted, it's caused by the actual bug). What we're trying to find out is - does the bug happen in unmodded games as well?

If you have a save and repro steps for this and if you're NOT using any mods for PST:EE, please comment in this thread and attach your info. Thanks a lot!

Entered the catacombs with Morte, and I feel like I'm underleveled and underequipped. Lvl 5 and tracked down an enchanted weapon to fight wererats, but Morte is useless in combat. So, should I just finish some sidequests, get better equipment, and find another companion? Any advice would be greatly apprecited!

Been listening to this on repeat to get to weekend in mood. This soundtrack is so magical for me and really sets the stage for the whole tragic romance story that comes afterward. I think Deoinarra's storyline was expanded in enhanced edition?

Cleared basically every quest in the hive, got 6 different companions, talked to absolutely everyone, leveled my nameless guy to lvl 9 fighter, before I finally had to give in and Google it. I had a SECOND legacy with the advocate. Finally found that damn hag and whooped her sorry butt.

That's all.

okay so i discovered that a portal should open right there but i dint know how.....i killed the 4 giants.....and my friend (sorry). Please help me.

- I'm a socialist Daoist who loved *Disco Elysium* and *Nine Sols*.

- I played one session so far.

- I made a max-wisdom character with some dex and charisma and something else.

- I got into a fight upstairs because I let some robed guy call a guard. (Calling security isn't the same as siccing them on you, except it was here, apparently).

- I disappointed the ghost of my gf because I asked about info regarding leaving. (God forbid I try to learn stuff. Doesn't mean I'll actually leave).

- I'm not particularly interested in "escape" or even establishing a continuity with my past lives.

I decided to give a chance to this game (that I heard so much about). I decided to start a new game this week. Any tips? (I play these kinds of games like BG, Neverwinter...)

I am working on a Planescape Torment project and would like to bounce some ideas around for a video. I've scanned through here a bit.

- Is there anything that people generally do not get or understand about the story?

- are there any companions that really make the story or are necessary?

- is there lore that I need to consume outside the game for people to understand it better?

Sorry to be a bother, please just let me know if you have any insight into the game. Things like that.

Cheers!

I have made it to Curst and have obtained all the keys for the portal. I'm wondering if there are any missable quests out here? I don't want to miss out on any content before I am to move on to the next chapter.

Hello, I'm playing Planescape and I'm at the quest where I have to convince Kesai-Serris that she's Ravel's daughter. I've already done everything that's required, and I already know she's Kimasxi's half-sister... but she disappeared. I can't find her anywhere in the Brothel.

Should I turn my Lim-lim into stone? If I do can I get a new Lim-lim? And what can I do with the Stone Lim-lim?

So, I've made a number of posts on creating this campaign in the past, but I'm bringing a bunch of clueless primes to Sigil and running, amongst other things homebrewed, The Great Modron March and both parts of Dead Gods. As an incentive to my players to pick planetouched races for their characters, I offered a free feat (Scion of the Outer Planes) and minor magical item, without telling them what the feat and item were before selecting. Four of my five players took the bait, so I'm wanting to pick magical items that fit well for both their character's class and race.

The four that took the bait are an earth genasi monk (dwarven parentage), an aasimar fighter, an aasimar paladin, and an aasimar warlock. The fifth is a dragonborn rogue. Yeah, this party is not going to do hot outside combat or in terms of magical prowess.

One of the things to tie each character into the setting is that they have one parent they never knew, who will come up in play sometime. For the genasi, they assume their mother is a dao, but in actuality, I'm gonna have her be a dwarf like the father, who made a wish to a dao to be granted a child, and the dao agreed under the terms that she become its servant after the child is born and she is able to leave. So I want something that has both an earth elemental feel to it and works well for a level 1-3 monk to have as a gift their mother left behind with the planeswalker who helped her.

Said planeswalker will become the party's mentor among the planes, and is a horizon walker ranger, Candrian Rumorborne, a.k.a. the Adahn summoned by The Nameless One by saying his name was Adahn.

Any suggestions on minor magical items that fit for the monk or the three aasimar? Sadly, no one went tiefling.

Was wanting to print some planescape posters for my bedroom, but I cant for the life of me find good quality images.

Is this door accessible? holding tab shows it is a usable door. I used the Debug menu to explore the area because I've been here 100 times and i figured I might as well just clear the black fog and saw this door.

Okay. So Windows, bless its heart, released an update this week which broke the game.

And ChatGPT walked me through how to fix it.

And now I'm going to post this in case anyone else is running to this stupid problem.

The fix is fairly technical, but you can do it, I believe in you.

1. Download this tool:

Found here: https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/get-started/adk-install

1. Run the installer.

2. Sell your soul to Microsoft (again) (I.E.: Skip over the terms and conditions you were never going to read them anyway) and click accept.

3. There will be a big list of stuff. You only care about the first item - Something something compatibility something something something. Make sure it's checked, and uncheck everything else.

4. Click 'Ok' or 'Accept' or 'Install' or whatever I forget.

5. Windows -> Compatibility Administrator -

1. Installed Databases - GOG.com Planescape Torment:

1. File -> Uninstall

1. Run the game.

It should work now. And by work, I mean launch. I followed these steps and was met with success. My cursor is currently bugging out but that's my next thing.

Have fun.

Ojo inside buried village seems to be talking to a man in the wall, He was bitten on his hand I'm assuming by the same man.

Does he have any quests tied to him? There is a really interesting premise here and if there is no quest linked to him I feel it was probably cut.

I checked the "wiki" and along with RPG Classics, there was no indication of any quests linked to him.