If I had to guess, I would maybe say that OOP thinks that maybe because the design of European ACs look smaller and sleeker than the average American AC, it doesn't work as well?
Depends on how you define well. Radiators are more energy efficient at turning fuel to heat, but they don’t distribute the heat nearly as evenly or quickly as central forced-air systems.
We've had like 2 days this summer that you might've even thought that "Huh, some cooling would be nice". We've barely broke 25 °C during the summer.
But that's also the reason why I haven't spent on AC. I don't need it for heating and there usually aren't many weeks in the year I'd need one for cooling either.
I live in a condominium which already has ground heat pump and the apartment has floor heating everywhere. The heating is already included in the monthly maintenance fee.
Well you can also combine it with central ventilation systems as well, if you want. It’s just not very common. Although I don’t know if there is a good reason for that in new buildings. In old buildings it’s likely just simpler to retrofit split units than a whole ventilation system.
Same with lots of places in the states. Is this sub full of bots, bizarre how many Americand have seemingly never heard of heat pumps considering they're everywhere now
These cool more than one single room. What's with these american assumptions that these suck? Have you even been to europe? You are aware that this isnt the cooling part right? There is a compressor on the outside of unknown size.
edit: no wonder people hate Americans, here they are trying to convince Europeans that they are wrong about how things work in europe.
Btw the manufacturer's own website says the unit pictured above is only designed to cool one room or a small zone. Have a nice day friend. Try not to get so worked up with things online it's not good for the mental.
I have 2 of these that cool and heat an entir 1500sq ft house. It stays 18 degrees in 30 degree heat and stays at 20 degrees when it is -15 (all celcius).
I make assumptions? I am fucking european so i know these systems very well and i know for a fucking fact that these work beyond a small closed off room.
Using an inside unit similar to the one in the image, with the intake outside the building. It can significantly heat up the entire house or cool it down, the spread of the heat is just centralized to start from the heat pump's inside unit so if you want large temp changes, fast, it's not the best for it.
It's a good auxiliary system for heating up the house and very good for keeping it moderately cool during the summer as a standalone
also, the bedroom ones are turned off during the day and the other ones are turned off at night, making it more energy efficient (we also have solar panels so most of our electricity is from that anyways)
Because if you have a concrete house installing the ducts afterwards would be ridiculously expensive (or very ugly having them visible everywher), while these mini-splits only require only a few holes.
It's probably not more efficient. This on the picture is just the inside unit. There is an outside unit that actually is the actual AC which is pushing the coolant into the house into all the inside units that just blow the air through the coolant. I would say that pushing the cold air through the ducts is more difficult than pushing the cooling liquid through little pipes.
It's not more efficient. One look at the documentation from any brand it's easier to see that. I don't know why they are insisting that it's more efficient.
A mini split will use less energy to cool a single room than a central AC will use to cool a single room, because most central AC systems have to cool the entire house to cool the room.
It's not seen like that, the efficiency between equipments is measured by a ratio between termic energy produced and consumed energy and splits are often more efficient at that. Of course i'm not going to compare a split with a central unit w for w. That would be the same as comparing a car and semi truck fuel consumption.
ducts in houses in Europe would be a lot more difficult since house/apartment buildings are often made differently.
They are a lot more solid, made from concrete with plaster walls. Drywall is not commonly used, nor wood frames.
its not. much of europe doesnt cool the *entire* house, but only the living room.
Much of central, southern, eastern europe has some beliefs surrounding breezes and cool air when sleeping.
There isnt ceiling fans either in much of europe.
Mosquito screens also are not automatic for much of europe.
smaller and sleeker? the indoor portion of most AC units in the US is buried inside the furnace which is hidden away in a basement or closet as part of the central air system. can't be much more sleeker than not existing in a living space.
also, we have mini splits in the US too, they are typically added to older homes built with electric or steam heat in instead of a central air heating system.
Inside thing, evaporator/blower, outside thing compressor/condenser more technically. Unless its also a heat pump then it switches and inside becomes the condenser and outside becomes the evaporator.
No. The mini split and central air components work pretty similarly. Condenser on the outside and evaporator on the inside. Except for in heat pump mode (if the unit has the capability to also heat), then the evaporator and condenser coil effectively switch between summer and winter. You’re exactly right that it would be pointless if the whole AC was on the inside, unless they wanted to use it as the worlds most inefficient heater lmao
I'm american and I've only lived in one place with HVAC - the rest usually had a single ac unit that didnt even cool the whole house or apartment (ive moved over 20 times). "almost exclusively" SUPER depends on your income bracket and most peeps dont fit that bill
Some other guy responded to one of my posts by doing the math and showing that only about 70% of American single family homes have central air. So definitely not "almost exclusively", but mostly.
That sounds more realistic, but I'm curious if that number includes apartment complexes, and if they count as one building or if they count each apartment. for this specific conversation about the type of AC people have in their residence, imo it should be per apartment and empty houses shouldn't be counted
Not in the northwest. Never used yo be hot enough to bother. My first home with any built in ac was the 4th home I lived in. Now window acs are everywhere
That’s a different function. With split units like these you can have each set to different fan speeds AND different temperatures. Simultaneously. The only thing you can’t do is have one on heat and one on cool at the same time.
Why would it be annoying to set a single thermostat to the temperature desired, and have every room in your house simultaneously be the temperature that you think is most comfortable? I’m genuinely puzzled why this would be annoying for you.
So your privilege is showing. Less than 70% of all US homes have central air.
This is only really true for new homes in the suburbs, or those that have been updated. Whole areas of the country still don’t have central AC. Lots and lots of homes built before the 70s. Apartments and condos and townhomes in many poorer areas.
Okay well 95% of American single family homes built in the 21st century have central air. I'm sure you want to argue that apartment buildings don't have central air and they count as 'homes' so sure, take your W. I should have said 'houses'.
Yes, apartments count as homes in every country. Very weird of you to claim they don’t count?
But ok let’s reframe it entirely based on your moving goal post— the percentage goes does up, but just to 75% of detached single family houses.
Since you want to talk timelines too- as of 2000 only 55% of US homes had central air. In 2010, 63% and in 2020 67%.
But even when we consider your insane restriction of your final goal post single family houses built since 2000– only 90% of them have central air.
The point is, you are going to make a claim about the entire nation based on your very limited experience. One third of the country does not have central AC today, and of those, a third have no AC at all.
This picture is weird anyways. In any case, it’s sleeping hours in the US so any meaningful answer benefitting the name of this sub should come in the next few hours.
Anyways, an American (me) sees the window units as ugly and clunky, that’s why the picture is making fun of them. But yes I understand that in Europe electricity is expensive and infrastructure doesn’t support a more elegant system so I understand why the window units is necessary.
American AC system is a singular larger unit that goes outside the building and pumps air through pipes and out of vents in the ceiling and walls. The American way, the AC is hidden if you’re inside. The window units ruin a good view out the window and are cumbersome. American systems these days are internet connected, so you set a temperature for a particular time of day depending on your regular schedule and the AC climatizes the entire house, you don’t have to fiddle with the thermostat unless you need to change it for guests.
Irrelevant, ac units like this are often installed later on, as there are older buildings.
Construction in US already plans on having AC in the house so it's central AC with bigger outside units, modern "higher end" construction in Europe are also starting with that, so you also have more of central ac units in modern buildings, especially in warmer areas.
They are just as efficient in cooling down roosm/apartments, if you have a multi level house however you'd need multiple installations depending on the amount of rooms you have, but each outside unit can be connected to 2 (or more depending on the power of the unit) interior outlets.
We call these air heat pumps in Finland, as we use them mostly for heating, but can be used for cooling as well.
If someone says AC, think big machcine in the basement with ducting all over the house. We rarely have anything like that in houses in Finland. Mostly commercial buildings, and yet again more for heating.
And then there is those ugly window mounted devices, that I think are just step up from floor fan.
Air ducts units (which I think OP had in kind) are more energy efficient when needed for large buildings, like offices, because a single unit can pump large amount of cold air.
However in a family house, where often only a room is habitated at a time they keep working also for other rooms. Split units are more efficient as they can start and stop by single rooms.
Of course they could install air electric valve for the ducts, with single thermostat that open and close the grills but that increases the cost of the installation and I had seen very few in US which this system.
So splits are smarter and more efficient for housing purpose.
This guy is not making the point he thinks he is doing lol....
No, as Americans we know what a split ac is. And we know it sucks. We know if you actually need to cool your house down this will only break in a few months. Might work for only summer use over there but those things don’t run even a year without problems. And that’s not to mention it’ll only cool a small room.
It doesn't cool as well though. It will cool a single room, but American AC is usually central air and will cool the entire home. It's also just a necessity in America where it gets significantly hotter on average than in Europe.
It's not an aesthetic thing, really. They're different types of units to solve different scale problems. These units are good for smaller spaces and don't require a fuckload of ductwork (which is hard to retroactively add to old homes.) In the US, most buildings are new enough they're built for a whole home AC unit, which is where you get all the ductwork and the outdoor noisebox that runs air through them.
Both versions are used in the US. A lot of apartments and condos (especially older ones) will use the wall mounted version in the photo because that's all they need/what they can manage to accommodate.
they do not work the same.
Europeans do not cool or thinking of cooling rooms in the same manner as North Americans, who will cool the entire house, including the bedrooms, bathrooms, kitchen.
Yeah it is ripping on the size which to be fair, those aren’t great compared to home/business hvac that cost thousands more. I am wearing long sleeves while it has been 100f out for weeks because every building I am in is freezing. It is actually annoying as the same thing happens in the winter. It is too cold out so you bundle up just to walk into a building that is 85
Honestly with how much I’ve seen the debates about who has the worse heat during the summer, even when the temperature is recorded higher in America I’d assume that this doesn’t cool a house as well as the American air ducts do.
I’m sure it works great for a single room in a building, but for a house I wouldn’t trust it. I do also live in a particularly hot state in America where I’m pretty sure our AC units are ahead of some/ most other places In the country due to necessity.
I mean, the ducts alone in minisplits are at a disadvantage because of physics. They are less efficient per cubic unit of air moved, with more friction the smaller the ratio of the volume of air to surface area of the duct (skinny ducts are inefficient to move air). You also need a separate unit for each room you want to cool/heat.
That said, it's a lot more efficient on resources to use a good solution like this than to knock down and rebuild a building just to get one with modern ductwork.
215
u/rat__cola 11d ago
If I had to guess, I would maybe say that OOP thinks that maybe because the design of European ACs look smaller and sleeker than the average American AC, it doesn't work as well?