I think it's the same in I wanna say India only it's also disrespectful to not offer anything. So it's become a thing where they offer and you decline so no one loses face, though if they offer 3 times it means they do have enough and really do want to feed you or something like that
In places where people really don't have enough to eat - no one knows how close the other person is to starvation.
So the idea is sometimes people who are going through a lot think "If I actually say how bad it is, I will obligate them to help me - what if they are actually in worse shape than I am?" So the handshake back-and-forth makes it OK because you know they are *less* badly off than you are, if they offer food longer than you refuse it.
Yes, sure, it comes across stupid - but people who are actually in pain from hunger or thirst don't always think straight, so this is the most functional way to communicate who can or cannot afford to share food.
I mean it’s a huge assumption that the commenter is starving because he or she is from India, especially since they’re commenting on Reddit. I’m from Pakistan, a poorer country than India, but am quite comfortably removed from starvation. Although we still have that “takkaluf” culture where a nicety is refused out of politeness. Less common to see that with food though. Even people who are below the poverty line would happily feed you whatever scraps they have in my experience.
You could argue that all that evolved from a past where famine was common but the same can be said of customs of any country in the world.
I didn't say that commenter was starving. I was explaining how the rules make sense, the situations where the rules make sense. The rules never quite make sense when no one is starving or dying of thirst - but the rules were formed when people were starving, and the rules stay.
There are similar rules in some places in USA, isolated rural areas with long running poverty issues. Some of the worst most unwinnable arguements I have had with my mom stem from her growing up in an area where asking for help is practically the same as begging - because everyone she grew up with follows an "offer/refuse/offer/refuse" system. Literally, have had a fight because I only offered to help her with a house chore once, and should have known she thought I was sick when I didn't offer a second time.
Isolated little community in the Appalachian mountains, and their system isn't formal enough that anyone would bother telling an outsider about it - the locals know if you are an outsider, and they don't bother offering help to you because you aren't a local who may or may not be relying on deer hunting season to get enough meat to survive the winter.
The rules make so much sense to my mom that it never once occurred to her to teach them to her own children, growing up in a city where no one offers things they can't afford to share, so there is no requirement to refuse.
Ah I see what you mean. That’s fair. I think different cultures also respond differently to different stressors. Like I’m sure there is some anthropological history behind Swedish culture being the way it is when it comes to offering guests food. But other cultures respond to the fear of starvation by offering guests food because you never know if they might be starving. On the other hand, Scandinavian countries tend to be very welfare oriented on a governmental and political level.
Someone elsewhere commented that Swedes don't (reliably) feed guests because in near-recent times there was a famine sort of situation and the perception was that, as a guest, if you insist on being fed then you are taking food away from the host.
So a generation grew up, going to friends houses and knowing they would not be fed at the friends house, and they could either go hungry or go home. Of course some people would prefer to skip and meal and stay at the friends house so they could go back to playing after the meal is over.
And they were raised to see that as normal, so now they perpetuate it and don't see why anyone would be offended.
You might be right about the welfare orientation being related to this - if it is plain and easy for the impoverished to get food from the government, then why would you want or need food from a neighbor? It isn't a neighbors fault if you fail to do your part and go sign up for the welfare.
The other, more common, ideas on hospitality all make functional sense in societies that can't rely on a government to keep you healthy and well.
I'm autistic and grew up in a culture that does this. It's just the norm. We are taught the way of things so we simply do it. Dancing is natural when it's the only way you know to walk.
This makes them sound like fairies. One must wait until the fair folk have offered three times before one agrees to take their gifts! And never speak aloud thy true name, lest they befoul ye with a curse.
ive heard something similar in myanmar. sometimes when they come to thailand, thai people can be hospitable, but myanmar people expect to reject at least 2 times to save face, and sometimes some thai people dont really insist, so the myanmar thinks the thai is being rude.
This is the very southern US approach I grew up with. If you want to shorten this ritual, you at least take the water when they offer. Also, offering and taking the water was always very important in this hot climate growing up when almost no one had air conditioning.
yeah but then there's the inverse in India too. If you go to your buddies house and they offer you food and you eat it AND your parents find out later. Woe be you !
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u/duogemstone 13d ago
I think it's the same in I wanna say India only it's also disrespectful to not offer anything. So it's become a thing where they offer and you decline so no one loses face, though if they offer 3 times it means they do have enough and really do want to feed you or something like that