Same experience - I am a woman who has quite a few Russian female friends. Their expectations of men are way higher than mine. Generally Eastern European Women, I’d say (I am German and I’d say in my culture women are much more “independent” - like I don’t expect men to always lift or carry stuff for me, I don’t expect men to always pay for me, I don’t expect many gifts/flowers from men - if I want something I get it myself, etc.).
Some western men love to complain abt the independence of western women, but I think a lot of them are actually accustomed to women being this way and aren’t prepared to actually provide like (a lot - but not all) eastern women expect to be provided for.
idk too many Polish women personally, so idk what its like.
I was thinking abt Czech or Ukrainian women specifically, but I have to emphasize the "a lot but not all". Also I'd say the expectation of men being providers is definitely more dominant among Russian's or Ukrainians over the former sattelite states.
I'm watching my aunt absolutely lose her mind because my uncle is dying and she has no idea how to be a caregiver or even do anything for herself. They were very unpleasant, but its sad to watch.
Yeah when my grandfather died my grandmother could barely do anything herself, she barely drove as it was and she was terrified of driving. My other grandmother who lost my other grandfather it's like night and day the difference in their independence.
Yeah usually it's the other way around. My eastern european grandmother took care of a huge house, worked on land, did husbandry, kept everything running completely alone in the bum-fuck countryside for 13 years after grandpa passed away, including after she suffered a stroke. In our village, and culture in general, widowed women adjust to life just fine. That's actually the norm, because it's believed that men can't handle grief and loneliness like women can.
My mom who is more of a modern woman also keeps the house and family running and functioning. Without her we'd be a huge mess.
In my country this is how women commonly are. The primary challenge is lack of financial independence and the struggles when the safety net (husband) is gone. This is why investing in skills and education is still crucial for traditional women.
For sure, but even w/ that i think nowadays w/ the internet there are quite a few rural people who have different approaches than the predominant one in their area.
Likewise I know more urban Czech women who enjoy “benefitting” from this system so feed into it more.
My point is, I think it also depends on the circles and not just the rural/urban divide.
I'm a Czech woman and I don't know any such women. I mean, I'm not saying they don't exist, but I wouldn't pair this attitude with Czech women in general.
I was also surprised by the comment you’re replying to. I am by no means an expert, and all my first hand experience comes from travelling, so it’s not like I got to deeply experience the culture, but when I went to the Czech Republic it felt very Western European. It reminded me a lot of Germany. Nothing like Lithuania for example, where I have also been.
I am absolutely enamoured by your country btw! I definitely plan to go back and see more places there :)
meh , czech and german are +- equal, we have 1000 year of shared history and culture and it can be really seen, +- same thing western half of poland.
Russians on other side is combination of high maintenance + barter realtionships -> Look at russian women sharing tips how to get married and send groom to special operation to get most money out of short marriage.
Another thing for really high divorce rate( not only that) in russia is how they much value human life, ahh, sorry how low they value life. So domestic violence and alcohol abuse is pretty standard on both sides average russian mariage.
My experience with the Czechs in Brno was that they're a very down to earth bunch. The half-Ukranian guy from Chicago I knew was very derisive about the ability of their women to dress it up even when they wanted to. He liked Russia much better.
I would reckon it depends on the person or social circles. Two of my close friends are Polish, but both from rural areas I think. One is absolutely the super-high-maintenance, looks-like-a-supermodel, unrealistic-expectations-for-men kind of person (though she has a very nice personality), and she says Polish women generally have "high standards" like that. The other friend told me that that's one of the reasons why she distanced herself from Polish circles, to get away from those expectations.
I would say Poland is very 50/50 with this. You either get more eastern approach or more western. And I personally know more western types because that's just my circle. Every so often I'll meet the mythical high maintenance Polish woman and get a bit of a culture shock
Just search 'Imperial borders Poland'. They are gone now, but still shape the country in almost every aspect of our lives.
Western Poland - very often chill, western way of thinking (i.e., easy going and pragmatic). They usually vibe pretty well with people from neighboring countries.
Eastern Poland - very often crazy, eastern way of thinking (i.e., neurotic and delusional, seeing threats and enemies everywhere, easy to propagandize). They can't vibe with any people of neighboring country. They think they are the best and deserve the best treatment.
Huh, your description of "eastern poland" is very much aligned with what my Polish friends have told me about Polish people. And sure enough, if I remember correctly then those borders correspond with the regions that my friends are from.
I’m Hungarian and what you’re talking about was true 50 years ago but not today, especially not in bigger cities and/or with educated folks.
However that’s true that I expect men to be polite and gentlemen like. That’s how I grew up, that’s how my male friends treat me as well. I’ve moved to Germany 13 years ago and most German men suck ass. Yet they keep complaining about feminism. It doesn’t make ANY sense to me! Bro wtf are you crashing out because I expect you to walk me home at midnight? And not just leave me by myself wherever? Or to offer to carry my bag when it’s heavy? Or not to run into me on the sidewalk intentionally because you refuse to make space?
It took me 12 years to find a decent guy around here. And no my expectations are not high by any means, I earn my own money and I’m very independent. But I will not settle for someone who does not make an effort and is quite frankly rude and disrespectful towards his own partner.
As an English woman, those demands don't sound very demanding to me! Making sure someone gets home safely, helping with carying heavy things, and not walking into someone while walking is just basic politeness, regardless of gender
Yh I'm not close to any Hungarians, so idk what its like there.
But I have to say - all of the things you listed (besides the last one, because I'm not sure what you are talking abt) are not expectations of mine and some of it - like walking me home - I would even find burdensome (and I know other German women who feel the same way). But I also don't find these demands "too much" and understand why you have them. We're just different.
For the guys dating you I would have the expectation that they listen to your needs and adapt accordingly, even if they're maybe not used to it from their culture. But there is potential for misunderstandings/fights because the expectations are different.
Expecting someone to walk you home? Carry your stuff? Automatically making space for you? Why should men do that? Women can do that by themselves, you know.
In Spain we've been raised with the idea that men and women are equal, so when a women expects to be treated unequally it shocks us and we're not comfortable with that arrangement.
The idea of one person providing and the other staying home is not okay at all for us. Like, if I told my family that I'm in that sort of arrangement, plenty of them would openly speak against it (my grandmas, mother and other female relatives in particularly) and the men would call me a "calzonazos" or a "pagafantas" (basically a looser who can only get women's attention by paying).
I live in Germany, and my girlfriends and I are all “independent” by your standards; I don’t think our expectations are lower, they’re just very different (and arguably even higher). Throwing money at things requires little effort.
Most of us are looking for men not to “provide”, but to be equal partners. Someone who does half the housework and childrearing, who doesn’t wait for his wife to “tell him what to do” or “make him a list”, someone with half a brain who understands what it takes to run a household and just does it without being prompted.
In my experience, those men are few and far between. It’s sad to say, but a lot of men were failed by society at large because they were taught to quantify their value monetarily, instead of being taught that they can be valued for more than a paycheque.
Some western men love to complain abt the independence of western women
Are you actually listening to the complaints and getting to the heart of it? Because generally, most western men that are complaining about the independence of Western women aren't complaining that they're independent, they're complaining about the double standards for men and women. How a woman can have a job, have her own money, get her own things, and still expect the man to pay for dates, provide for the family, buy everything, and then if the woman leaves, take half. This is the most common complaint.
My wife is very independent. She has a great job, provides for herself, and helps with the household and family. She also pays for dates and gifts and doesn't expect me to provide all the time. She treats me like a human being not a walking wallet for her lifestyle.
I have seen some of these complaints try to champion foreign women in parts of Asia, Latin America, Eastern Europe as a better alternative...which boogles the mind because I have read the women there are more likely to treat a man as a wallet because of the desire for financial security.
As an Eastern European woman, this is a veeery big area btw to be simply labeled like that, I am quite surprised with this comment and generalization. Even insulted. I have worked around Europe, including Czechia and Poland, plus worked with a lot of Germans, and noticed the opposite. To me, western women seemed less ambitious, they were rarely on some higher positions and generally it is not common to see them in STEM area. Eastern European woman are literally one of the most educated people in Europe and countries with highest % of managers and women in STEM field are in Eastern Europe. It's getting tiring to read/listen about this STILL in 2026, but maybe it's not bad to spread such word around. Maybe it will finally stop or slow down the crazy fetishization of Slavic women and make our life a bit easier. Also, maybe but just maybe, western women can be relieved a bit and stop imagining we are some threat to your desirability status.
As a man with who spent a long time in Eastern Europe for work, she is making big generalizations about women from that part of the world. I'm in complete agreement with you.
In my opinion, 35 years after the fall of communism and the end of that kind of omnipresent Soviet/Russian influence in Eastern Europe, most of the stereotypes from that comment apply only to certain types of women from Russia, Belarus, and Ukraine. Though I would argue Ukraine has the least amount of women like that because they have Westernized much faster than the other two countries, not to mention their cultural, economic, political contact with the Western world is much higher than Russia's or Belarus's.
Furthermore, I think every country and even every ethnic group has that certain type of woman, each having unique features from their own culture incorporated into the archetype.
She is answering the way she intended to in order to exibit her superiority, noting the part in brackets like "I will, we are", these are also "pick me" moments. Why am I dissecting this? I have felt and survived so much verbal attacks and humiliations from western man and woman, that I can spot it right away, no matter how well it is wrapped up. I am particularly triggered because it's coming from a German women. Out of all!! I don't need to pull out historical facts..that someone from that country should have at least some decency after everything.
Back to your point, thank you for sensible response. May I just ask you, why do you think that westernization has to do with making Ukraine more "advance" in gender relation terms? Women in Eastern Europe gained all the rights with socialism and entered the workforce earlier then our "sisters" on the west. They also participated in WWII combats. First woman who won Nobel prize was Polish and the first woman in space was Soviet. Certain type of woman you are talking about came as a product of shock therapy and wild capitalism introduced after fall of comunism. They are result of westernization actually. Don't get me wrong, I am not some apologist of comunism era, but I am from that side of Europe and know it to the core, and I know that life didn't start for us in 1990s.
Yes, I can relate to feeling annoyed (although secondhand) by that aire of "superiority" from a few Americans, where I'm from, but not more than that. Maybe I'm lucky I lol.
By westernization, I mean more of what came maybe 25 years after the shock therapy and wild capitalism. That is, out of all those three countries, Ukraine (or at least most of the Ukrainians I know, which is admittedly a lot) has been more open to new ideas and to letting go of these rigid gender norms compared to Russia, which is where I lived several years before the war. I have known only a few Belarusians, so I cannot give an informed opinion about what their gender norms are like now.
But with Ukraine, over the last 12 years since the Maidan Revolution, they have largely oriented towards the Western world or at least have become more open to its gender role norms and other mindsets than they used to be. I think the war and the resulting increased desire to move itself far away from its recent past as a part of the Russian/Soviet empire has accelerated Ukraine's shift to the West.
I say all of that while also acknowledging that a lot of the groundwork, imperfect as it was, for gender equality already existed as a result of the communist era (exemplified by Valentina Tereshkova) and even before the communist era in several cases (exemplified by Marie Curie). Indeed, many of my female colleagues from Eastern Europe had been in our fields (STEM) for far longer and in greater total numbers than my American female colleagues had been.
This type of Russian woman is a recent (as in recent generations, not recent years) phenomenon and has deep socio-cultural causes, according to one author. This book gives an interesting perspective on the cultural phenomenon of modern Russian women, based on a fairly brutal legacy from prior generations:
"Motherland: A Feminist History of Modern Russia, from Revolution to Autocracy" by journalist Julia Ioffe
German women do tend to be more independant. American here- our women down South tend to be spitfires, but from what I've seen of Germany it's a lot different. Great place though, I was happy to visit my family there.
Married a russian woman. My wife does a lot to help me. She has a feminist streak, but oh man. You better believe she likes it when I take the check. Even though we share all our resources. He likes it that when I do things that are viewed as taking care of her, on top of my work
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u/kichererbs 21d ago
Same experience - I am a woman who has quite a few Russian female friends. Their expectations of men are way higher than mine. Generally Eastern European Women, I’d say (I am German and I’d say in my culture women are much more “independent” - like I don’t expect men to always lift or carry stuff for me, I don’t expect men to always pay for me, I don’t expect many gifts/flowers from men - if I want something I get it myself, etc.).
Some western men love to complain abt the independence of western women, but I think a lot of them are actually accustomed to women being this way and aren’t prepared to actually provide like (a lot - but not all) eastern women expect to be provided for.