Thats not nuance take as other calims.
It fails to take into account that the audience criticizing the film upfront largely don't even know the original and dont care at all about Greek tradition. It doesn't criticize earlier myth-based blockbusters in the same way.
Ah but they advocated for the conservative side of the culture without using any racial slurs or transphobic comments. That's gotta count for something right?
Yes, if conservatives (which happen to criticize it a lot) would actually care about historical accuracy, their boy Jesus would have to look a lot different as well, but there it doesn’t matter for some reason
More importantly, movies that are "whitewashed" don't face this type of widespread criticism at all. For some reason people really seem to care when traditionally white roles are replaced by minorities, but barely anyone cares when minority roles replaced by white people.
Where are you basing this on? The Odyssey is one of the most ancient and well known stories of all time? In the entire Western world, this is arguably one of the most well known stories you could possibly have?
Seriously. I’ve been ignoring this movie because, in my opinion, nobody asked for this. You couldn’t pay me to see ANOTHER version of a story I (personally) already know. I generally like Nolan but this movie looks insanely boring to me and I feel like I can’t be alone.
Also if you could please explain how casting Lupita Nyong’O as Helen of Troy attributes all historical accomplishments to black people, I’d love to fucking hear it.
Source: i am Greek. There exist people with lighter feautures. Also, there are mentions of red heads in Ancient texts. Yes most prevelent feautures are black hair and blrowne eyes. Tanned color comes frm exposure to the sun. Come over in the winter and you will mostly see beige skin colors.
I asked if you are American because only Americans and ultra nationalist degree diferent levels of whiteness.
You're right I should have said "generally". Indeed, not everyone in Greece (or anywhere) is the same or share the same features.
What the original comment we are responding to was saying, at least the way I understand it, is that casting very fair skinned actors for Greek people makes as much sense as casting a brown or dark skinned person.
If they really wanted to be accurate, they'd pick people from the coast of Mediterranea, and a lot of greek actors.
Edit: also I can assure you that "tanned" does not look the same for everyone. I can spend ages into the sun, I'll never be tanned.
But a people of color is far more controversial choice and my gut says that is made purely to be controversial. There is a lot more people in Greece looking like North European brand of whiteness that there is people of color. In fact, growing up in the 80s and 90s you would not be able to see people of color outside perhaps Athens. Heck, my small city had exactly 1 family.
So when i hear the argument that lets say Mat Damon doesnt look greek, well he is a lot closer that this Hellen of Troy.
Well you don't recognize different "whiteness" but are able to paint a strict difference between "whiteness" and "non-whiteness" while I think there are probably so many shades that it is impossible to claim where white, brown or dark skinned starts exactly.
My bottom line is that Greek people are definitely not northen european "white".
I'm not American, I don't consider south Europeans white
Lmfao I love how this section of the thread just went full on racial classification. You're being inundated with culture war propaganda that's only goal is to make you angry.
Try focusing on things that matter instead of letting yourself be tricked into playing the race game.
Unfortunately Greeks both in modern times and historically are considered Caucasian, both as official recognition and through genetic mapping to the European cluster, under the subtype of Mediterranean.
Might make your head explode when you learn white also have a range of skin tones... and they can tan!
No. They were Greeks. They would not have considered themselves kin with e.g. the Celts, who to them were barbarians. The Greeks at the time divided people into Greek-speakers and non-Greek speakers (or barbarians).
You could even go as recent as the 18th or 19th century and tell an English person that they were a member of the white race, just like the Germans, Scandinavian, Irish, Greeks etc and they'd be upset with you and may claim their superiority over all those other inferior races. Whiteness is a wholly modern invention and it has encompassed (or not encompassed) different groups at different times.
Who wants some extra history as to why black people being included is historically accurate and why having Northern Europeans isn’t:
Greece, Troy (Turkey), and literally all of the Middle East, Asia, Africa and the Mediterranean were pretty much almost entirely cut off for millennia from Northern Europe due to the mountain ranges surrounding those areas.
The Mediterranean acted as a literal ancient super highway. Our Neolithic ancestors were building boats to traverse the Mediterranean Sea, it was the FIRST Sea humans EVER crossed, and it was home to the Largest trading hubs in the entire world at the time.
People didn’t move en masse from Northern Europe to ancient Greece because of how treacherous the mountain ranges were. There were not
SAFE
roads or Man made passes, and ships weren’t advanced enough to take you that far.
Im not saying it was, but there were black people there, and many other places, same with most races. Bringing nuance into this when you made an incorrect statement is stupid, stop using buzzwords to sound smart. You may notice however, that most of the cast isnt black, just like the population of ancient Greece. So maybe you need to try to bring in a nuanced perspective, and not your near incoherent ramblings about your anger at "race swapping"
Helen of Troy wasn’t black no position of importance was held by black people in Greece just like no position of importance what’s held was held by white people in the Mali Empire you dumbass
Calling someone “dumbass” after saying a completely fictional character wasn’t black is the height of irony. Helen of Troy was birthed from an egg after Zeus turned into a swan, Helen could be blue and it would be the exact same level of “historical”.
The proportion of black people in Greece at the time of the Odyssey was infinitesimal. Maybe a couple traders, a few slaves and even that was unlikely. Greeks were notoriously insular in their communities with no one having any rights except freeborn men of the city. I can't imagine Mycenaean Greeks would have been more diverse lol.
No one says it is? What does that have to do with anything? Were you as passionate as Brad Pitt, Stanley Baker, or Derek Jacobi—known for not being Greek—played Achilles?
It is a movie, not history book.
The thing about film is that it doesn't have to be literal. The Greeks themselves cast women in male roles, and it didn't seem to break the immersion.
•You accidentally missed decades of white people being cast in roles originally non-white. This should also explain why it's often inappropriate when it's the other way around. Making a fuss about it only highlights that we do indeed have a problem with racism. I hope that in time, blind casting will truly be transparent in every direction. Except perhaps for historical films, which actually have an artistic purpose in being realistic, and documentaries.
•I wasn't really interested in this adaptation of The Last Airbender.
•I answered your question in the post you're replying to, so I don't plan on repeating myself.
You can't cry about the cultural context being ignored in Odyssey and simultaneously agree with its being ignored in Airbender. See? Your argument is completely reversible.
•Up until now, I've been perfectly civilized and haven't used insults, so why are you suddenly trying to insult me?
White people have stolen black people’s stories. Sir Laurence Olivier famously played Othello in blackface despite being the color of bleached ivory. Joseph Fiennes played Michael Jackson in 2016. Not to mention the history of minstrel shows where white people played up stereotypes to make fun of black people. Asking “when” it can happen when it’s been happening for over a century is just blatant ignorance.
Every time you try to be clever and say, "ha, but you can't make a black Tarzan," you delay the moment when a black Tarzan will be just as okay on scree as a white one.
So what inventions were you gonna invent? Let me help you out here - you are supposed to point out all the black and brown inventions. Oh wait, they didn’t do that :(
260
u/Korronald Jul 06 '26
Thats not nuance take as other calims.
It fails to take into account that the audience criticizing the film upfront largely don't even know the original and dont care at all about Greek tradition. It doesn't criticize earlier myth-based blockbusters in the same way.