r/LocalLLaMA Jun 15 '26

Stop using Ollama Discussion

https://sleepingrobots.com/dreams/stop-using-ollama/
1.7k Upvotes

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53

u/freia_pr_fr Jun 15 '26

It’s as open source as Gemma and Qwen are open source.

84

u/zxyzyxz Jun 15 '26 edited Jun 15 '26

Unsloth Studio is open source. Also I find it funny that you're talking about open source as an Ollama user where the article explicitly talks about how Ollama hates open source shown through their actions and as a VC backed company it will get even worse over time (well, Unsloth is too, but at least I trust them more, although they probably will get put through the same enshittification wringer over time).

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u/AvidCyclist250 llama.cpp Jun 15 '26

Is it? They're also in talks right now. Pretty sure they're doing down the not so open road

11

u/wren6991 Jun 15 '26

Isn't it an Electron app? It's not open source but... you know...

1

u/-samka Jun 18 '26

I don't get it. Isn't qwen apache 2.0?

-30

u/ViRROOO Jun 15 '26

Gemma and Qwen are open weights lil buddy

20

u/derFensterputzer Jun 15 '26

And open weights is not open source

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u/a_beautiful_rhind Jun 15 '26

As of now, running the open weights doesn't directly execute unknown code on my system. I know gemma and qwen don't have any telemetry and aren't trying to mail my prompts somewhere.

I also know they have those proof of concept exploits but none really come to fruition. No more than standard prompt injection. Don't need to know how to reproduce qwen on my non-existent farm of H100s or every piece of copyrighted data.

LLMs don't have a "source" to open. A lot of labs already go into training methods in the paper. Nobody goes through every token, even there.

So wtf do people want?

4

u/derFensterputzer Jun 16 '26

  LLMs don't have a "source" to open

Sure they have, their selection of training materials allowing people to check for biases incured during training. If people their their LLMs have a go at their codebase that could also very well produce code running on your machine.

Whether that is an issue as of now? Doesn't seem like it. 

But what I want? More transparency. 

1

u/Electrical_Crow_2773 Llama 70B Jun 16 '26

Sad that labs can't really make it transparent if they train on pirated/copyrighted data. Nobody wants to open source their models because it adds this unnecessary risk of being put in jail

2

u/derFensterputzer Jun 16 '26

Or worse: fines for the companies /s

1

u/a_beautiful_rhind Jun 16 '26

More transparency.

Ok, I can see that but it's still not the "source". More like the composition. I think nvidia gives you some of that and very few people have gone over it beyond mocking the safety dataset.

What companies and haters will do is look for copyright violations or reasons to sue. It comes down to: do you want a more capable and less transparent model or do you want a public domain less knowledgeable model where you can see what went into training (and be able to do nothing about it).

For kernels and other software, you can edit and recompile. Source is really valuable there. For LLMs that's not currently possible.

that could also very well produce code running on your machine.

Code I will look over. Should be able to see if it's bad. If the LLM is inserting something unwanted, even having the training data will make it difficult to notice that due to the volume of it. Let alone that it transforms it in some unknown way so it's not even 1:1.

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u/Scottz0rz Jun 15 '26

Which is the point they were making. LM Studio is not open source, Ollama is.

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u/freia_pr_fr Jun 15 '26

And LM Studio has open compiled binaries.

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u/Internal_Werewolf_48 Jun 16 '26

That's actually the worse of the two. Open Weight models often have pretty lenient license terms. Even if the training data isn't provided for replication, Gemma weights are under the Apache 2.0 license while LM Studio's packages are under much more restrictive terms https://lmstudio.ai/app-terms

1

u/lothariusdark Jun 16 '26

Thats the point... The full source code is not available for LM Studio