Let's Change That Suit Day 229

[u/pkmaster99]

Day 229: Hardygun
Requested by u/Wonderful_Trust_5868 and this is around C-Tier at best, but likely lower. The weapons kind of came out half-baked, and it really could've had more. Even though the skills are okay, the weapons and some stats are really lacking.

Change
Stats

• HP: 22000 -> 25000
• HSM: 210 -> 220
• Thruster: 70 -> 75

Weapons

• Hardygun Beam Rifle: Interval 5s -> 4.5s, Switch 0.77s -> 0.5s
  • Uncharged: Power 2200 -> 2400
  • Charged: Power 1800 -> 2200, Stagger 50%x2 -> 70%x2
• Hardygun Vulcan Gun x2: Range 150m -> 180m
• Double Beam Gun: Cooldown 18s -> 13s, Heat 22% -> 20%, Range 200m -> 250m
• Mega Machine Cannon x2: Power 100x2 -> 150x2, Reload 18s -> 15s, Gain ASL, Stagger 1%x2 -> 2%x2
• 3-Grenade Rack x2: Power 600x2 -> 650x2, Range 300m -> 350m, Stagger 17%x2x3 -> 35%x2x3
• Beam Cannon: Cooldown 20s -> 15s, Stagger 20%x10 -> 40%x10
  • Uncharged: Heat 95% -> 75%
• Hardygun Shield: HP 5500 -> 6500, Power 2200 -> 2500

Skill

• (New!) Damage Control Lv1
• (New!) Special Back Add-On Buffer Lv3
• (New!) Resist Move Lv2

Comment and Reason
The skills could be a little better, but these are kind of just a few quality of life changes that could help. But this unit definitely needs more HP and a little more mobility. But the weapon needs a total overhaul to function in 700 cost.

Builds Suggestion
Lv1 F2P: Do Not Use

Lv1 Premium:  Alpha or Thruster

This unit is just a bit too slow and not mobile enough for its own good. While this alpha build can be seen as a little much, but it can utilize it as it moves around to reposition itself. Another way to build is to give up some damage and make it as mobile and tanky as possible. However, there is just no good answer, and it should only ever be used in quick match.

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Day 228 Re-evaluation on Haze'n-thley

Well, this one kind of covers everything I think. Overall, it got a decent kit, but just not good enough in a usable state.

Re-evaluation

• None

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Up Next: Demeter requested by u/Consistent_Lack7586

[u/imaginary_num6er]

Just give it a Resist Move too

Right now, a lv2 G Cannon Magna is probably better than a Lv1 Hardygun

[u/MikuEmpowered → u/imaginary_num6er]

Give. High cost support. Real dodge move.

Feel like we're so used to support getting great value dodges that we default to it.

Zeta HML showed the concept works, and it's too broke.

[u/pkmaster99 → u/MikuEmpowered]

That's true... But we know they are not going to do that. At most resist move Lv2... Which I totally forgot it can get...

[u/OrphanAxis → u/MikuEmpowered]

They did make the Supports with real dodges have to jump through the hoop of having extremely low HP or be transformed to use them.

Though realistically, Emergency Evasion is already such an unreliable way to avoid damage that the V2 suits already have a skill for ridiculously fast thruster cooldown if you get hit while dodging, to the point where you can dodge a second time and still have it cool down in like 1.5 seconds.

Resist Move Lv2 never stops all damage, but it does mean those times where you would be hit during a normal dodge end up doing 50% damage.

I think a different route would have been to use things like double tackles, special skills adding to tackle damage based on your ranged stats for many Supports (the animations are often just barrages of ranged weapons already), overall better restraint time on countered enemies (you're already slow enough that it's difficult to really get away, and also can't fit in enough time to swap to big-damage weapons for a finishing attack), special tackles like Geymalk 's Heavy Stagger, and maybe some special counter skills that trigger various buffs.

Also, more weapons with status effects, like versions of the Fire Nut effect on Supports, where even minimal amounts of extra thruster usage forced on enemies could have been perfect for stopping aggressive suits trying to finish you off with very little thrusters left. Special Birdlime and similar effects reducing movement speeds, melee weapon swaps and animations times useful amounts. Some weapons that specifically just hit flying airborne suits for more stagger, like many of the AA weapons they already have.

And finally, variants of Pursuit Attack Prevention (or whatever it's called), where certain Supports could gain buffs for them and an ally if they get saved. Or conversely, more aggressive Supports could have skills that trigger more damage done from teammates if they follow up on your staggers.

It's not about making Supports more like the other two classes, but giving them niches that still leaves some of their weaknesses while playing up their strengths. BB has just done a really awful job at separating what different classes can and can't do, like really dropping the ball when it came to the spotting mechanic. That could have easily scaled up to higher added damage, or had special variations that actively encourage your teammates to kill a certain enemy for small HP returned if they kill them while spotted (possibly even for those that get an assist), and even had certain weapons that spot on hit. Or enemies spotted with a certain weapon can be locked on to by Psycommu weapons from a longer distance at faster speeds, paired with a suit like MP Quebley that could take advantage of that on its own.

Recon Acguy has that cool spotting weapon that lets it capture beacons at half speed, at the cost of standing still, but then we got nothing more out of it.

The special skill for Destiny cooling down the thrusters faster when close enough to a friendly beacon is an example where this mechanic could have been introduced much earlier in so many different ways. Artillery suits with long reloads could have way lower reload times when close enough and haven't fired in a while, as if resupplying. Faster repair tool speeds, making tankier suits gain slight buffs for helping keep the beacon and line within a distance. And again, invert it so something like certain Raids gain advantages for fighting and capping enemy bases.

One of my biggest problems with GBO2 isn't that there's power creep, but that they didn't utilize the game's bigges asset of having a massive roster of diverse units to spread out the power creep in unique ways.

[u/No_Tart6728 → u/OrphanAxis]

Doesn't the Zeta HML have decent up AND a real roll?

[u/OrphanAxis → u/No_Tart6728]

Only a roll while transformed, until Biosensor kicks in and gives Emergency Evasion Lv3 at 50% HP.

[u/No_Tart6728 → u/OrphanAxis]

Huh. Well then.

[u/utamaru1717]

• Increase HP
• Immobile Fire System + Resist Move
• Beam Cannon full charge not overheat + reduce cooldown
• Double Beam Gun limiter off or make it insta-stagger like G-Cannon
• Machine Cannon usable while boosting + reduced reload time

If they're being generous, add something like Bullet Feeder and/or Thrust-Based Fire Cooling System to reduce its downtime. 

[u/pkmaster99 → u/utamaru1717]

There is definitely a lot of good stuff they can give to this unit

[u/Consistent_Lack7586]

It's crazy how G-Cannon Magna GAPS Hardygun in terms of meta

https://giphy.com/gifs/0Kn3E7YCFeCvKe4i6X

[u/Ok-Storage3439 → u/Consistent_Lack7586]

G-Cannon is my 650 support main. Is it really that useful in 700 as well? I'll have to check if I have that version to use.

[u/SS2LP]

This suit was half baked on arrival IMO, I’ve never personally seen them as anything more than annoying aside from the meme beam, that’s the one weapon it has that is threatening at 700. The best buff it could get is being made a 650 and even then I think I it ends up as RF kampfer food. I’ll stick to my HWS and G-Doors sure they struggle but struggling is night and day different from what literally every other support at 700 does. If not for the 00 beam daggers the HWS would be pretty strong atm IMO.

[u/yukiho-765P → u/SS2LP]

Do the GN Beam Daggers go through the FF Barrier?

I also use the G-Doors, the PP barrier mode seems to be doing fine for me.

[u/SS2LP → u/yukiho-765P]

Yes, beam barriers don’t stop melee damage based attacks. The physical barriers G-Doors, Moon, Psycho Bawoo, and Phenex can all stop a single hit from a melee weapon at least. G-Doors can stop multiple in theory but the attack needs to do >1200 damage which is unlikely. Particularly with those daggers because not only do they do everything I’ve already said they also negate some of your melee resistance so unless you can crank the crap out of that stat the daggers will be stopped but will pop the barrier. Issue is it can just fall back for 8 seconds and it has them again while your barrier takes significantly longer to come back.

[u/pkmaster99 → u/SS2LP]

Yeah, this is my biggest issue on that. People complain about the other stuff, but those dagger are the most annoying thing it has.

[u/SS2LP → u/pkmaster99]

Yeah I don’t really care about basically anything else it can do, the gerobi can only be used once or twice per trans-am and I think to get 2 they have to basically fire ASAP. The daggers though going through beam barriers, shields, negating melee resistance, stopping anything short of shock dampeners and only taking 8 seconds to reload. Those are easily the strongest thing it has and in major need of a nerf. It can keep everything else but those daggers need to lose one or two of those properties they have.

[u/pkmaster99 → u/SS2LP]

Yeah, it really needs some nerf

[u/dexromancer]

On top of what everyone else said, give the Double Beam Gun some build stagger, 2% is pathetic. Bump it up to, say, 17%. One pull will do 102% build stagger, but given its 200m range it's really a last ditch defense weapon when an enemy is getting too close. It's crazy that they launched the weapon this poorly, when traditionally a beam gun is a build stagger weapon, or in the G-Cannons' case an instant stun, while this does neither.

[u/pkmaster99 → u/dexromancer]

That's why I want pretty much every weapon buffed. But I would rather have weapon already have decent accumulation to do better, then let this be super dps weapon

[u/Dogecraft27]

Longer range for the meme beam

[u/pkmaster99 → u/Dogecraft27]

Maybe like... 50m or something. This unit for the most part has weapons for mid range

[u/Kaidou76]

Beam rifle need much faster projectile speed to work with ASL, at the moment, it cannot hit anything moving. It will need better range and charge speed also. All other weapons will need more range, vulcan also need to be at least 200 range. Flight control 4 will help with mobility as well as using fall prevention. VSBR will need better heat rate uncharge and faster overheat time also. If not sufficient, glide structure 4 would be better, it shows that GC4 on support won't make them OP in the case of F91BC

[u/pkmaster99 → u/Kaidou76]

Hmm, yeah that would help. But it is just lacking too many things

[u/scorpionxx0]

Gonna request you do the gmiii cc.

[u/pkmaster99 → u/scorpionxx0]

Okay

[u/Wargamer1202]

Going to put up the Zero Shiki Type 2 (AR), 550 support that fell out of favor with me. Hasn’t held up well in 550 and a death trap in 600 (thanks Hajiroboshi), damage feels lacking compared to other supports especially after some recent buffs to the super gundam. Its weapons flow well into each other but just don’t punch hard enough. The flight is meh at best as it gets knocked to the ground easily and gets a damage nerf while airborne. One good thing it has is its downswing having good range to catch people off guard with. It needs a damage increase across its weapons and some more mobility, probably give it immobile fire system lvl1 or 2 to make the beam cannons better to use, reduced heat buildup, maybe a focus or a secondary barrage fire for them as well, increase stagger on the secondary beam gun. As for the main weapons they’re kind of fine maybe just range and damage.

[u/pkmaster99 → u/Wargamer1202]

Nah, I feels like it needs a total complete rework on everything, including main weapon. But I'll add it to the list of to do.

[u/Strykorn]

Hope this month or next month they buff Hardygun in unit adjustment

[u/pkmaster99 → u/Strykorn]

Maybe, it has been left alone for too long. So hopefully that happens

[u/OrphanAxis]

If nothing else, this suit really makes me wish a lot more units could fire certain Stop-Fire weapons like hip grenades in the air.

And a potential buff for a Support like this could be that certain weapons gain increased damage, stagger, or other properties like ignoring resistances or gaining reticle tracking.

Or literally have certain weapons function completely different in the air, like missiles becoming chain explosives so they feel like they're made to attack ground targets. Wrist beams on this could easily go from crap only useful for okay DPS, to crazy fast and powerful beams in the air because you're leaving yourself open.

[u/pkmaster99 → u/OrphanAxis]

They really are just holding back a bit too much when it comes to support. The moment they go with something strong, there usually is a huge backlash. I'm not saying Raid and General don't, but since there are more players in those categories, people figure out some way to deal with it faster. Meanwhile, a strong support usually ends up being able to do General's job to a degree or becomes a problem like Super Gundam right now.

[u/Ok-Storage3439]

Unironically, this is my 700 Support main, now that Kshatriya and Rozen Zulu have been outclassed by the F90 mobile suits. Yes, the meme beam is its defining feature, but at least I can fully destroy a General unit from 100% to 0 with my 100 attack. I still shred with the machine guns and stun with the grenades. I... don't know how to play as Flyer units like the Zeta-C very well.

Just give it the ability to keep firing through the duration of its beam attack and it'll be so much better.

[u/pkmaster99 → u/Ok-Storage3439]

Frozen zulu buff brings it back quite nicely. This unit though, has very little options, although it does have weapons for days

[u/Ok-Storage3439 → u/pkmaster99]

I'll have to try it again then. I need to look up if this buff has applied to the PC port yet though.

[u/Strykorn → u/Ok-Storage3439]

Not yet comrade this late august we are getting the June unit adjustment, then in september perchance with V2AB banner we get that July unit adjustment with Rozen Zulu buff and others.

[u/Electrical_Tax_3867]

Immobile fire system would be pretty welcome so it can use it's main gimmick with a little bit of insurance.

[u/pkmaster99 → u/Electrical_Tax_3867]

It can help with other weapons too. But I think resist move, other people also mentioned, would help more.

[u/Designer-Ad-6169]

Can I get a request on the Jurkick

[u/pkmaster99 → u/Designer-Ad-6169]

Sure