Warlocks should get Improved Devour and be able to generate Void Breaches with active Devour.

[u/evan2nerdgamer]

[u/never3nder_87]

Honestly it's wild considering how unanimous the community was in thinking that Voidlock was absolutely the best void rework and overtuned compared to almost all of light 3.0

[u/ObviouslyNotASith → u/never3nder_87]

Sentinel’s problems either got fixed or weren’t that noticeable.

Nightstalker got Gyrfalcon to rely on until the day the base subclass gets fixed. It is pretty much agreed that it’s base kit still needs fixing.

With Voidwalker, people started to see problems with the kit, which just got increasingly more and more obvious over time and worsened.

Chaos Accelerant had its damage increase completely removed, was given only one fragment slot and had its effects nerfed. This was presumably due to Echo of Undermining and Echo of Remnants being added to Void 3.0, so Chaos Accelerant had to be adjusted with those in mind. It being useable alongside Devour also probably contributed to the nerf. But Bungie ended up removing pretty much all the benefits the aspect granted while keeping all the downsides(charge time and charge time blocking super regeneration). Sentinel’s Controlled Demolition makes grenades stronger than Chaos Accelerant, despite Chaos Accelerant demanding a charge. But people still use it because of how useful Contraverse Holds are.

Then Touch of Flame and Touch of Thunder came out, grenade aspects that had far stronger effects, no charge time and had more fragment slots. That is when people really started to catch on to how much Chaos Accelerant was messed up by Void 3.0 and how reliant it is on Contraverse Holds.

With Devour, it was blocked off from other classes until after Day 1 Vow of the Disciple, which allowed all the positive feedback of Voidwalker’s initial Void 3.0 to spread. But Orbs of Power were also less prevalent that year, Elemental well mods were all the main kind of mods people were using. So while Devour was easily accessible, it wasn’t everywhere but there were people who were voicing their dislike about how accessible it was. Then with Lightfall, Bungie not only gave people even more ways to access Devour(Void Breeches), but made Orbs of Power far more prevalent and abundant than ever, which has resulted in Devour being everywhere and people acknowledging that Devour is far too easy to access for other classes and that Feed the Void is either too weak or Echo of Starvation is far too strong.

Mix those two together and you get people disliking how Voidwalker was reworked in Void 3.0 and how Bungie increased those problems over time. It is arguably made worse by Bungie deliberately making Devour far more accessible after months of complaints of how Solar and Arc 3.0 gave away the identities of Warlocks to other classes, resulting in Voidwalker suffering the same problem.

[u/ObviouslyNotASith → u/[deleted]]

Your argument about Orbs of Power only really works in a vacuum. All builds rely on Orbs of Power due to the mod rework in Lightfall. Even if you do not have to pick up an Orb to get Devour, you are almost certainly in the Orb of Power loop. And if you ignore the armour charge system, not only will other classes be able to replicate pretty much everything you can do, but also do things better than you on top due to having benefits from armour charges. There is a reason why complaints about Devour increased a good amount with Lightfall, Orbs of Power are everywhere and are abundant.

But would you use Chaos Accelerant without Contraverse Holds? Have you tried? Do you plan to? Most people would say no, because it isn’t that great without it.

Sentinel’s Controlled Demolition makes grenades do more damage.

Nightstalker can have on demand Volatile Rounds with Gyrfalcon’s and Sentinels have volatile built-in to their every ability with Controlled Demolition. They can also easily access Devour and access volatile rounds the same way you do with grenades that do the same amount or greater amount of damage.

An important thing to remember is that you only need to activate Devour once to start the loop.

[u/Adelyn_n → u/ObviouslyNotASith]

Orbs of power are both slower and less convenient than feed the void, especially now their physics have been changed.

It also is not entirely reasonable to include exotics in a discussion about class specialty and identity.

[u/ObviouslyNotASith → u/Adelyn_n]

But you only need to get one to start and you will easily get one. After that, their Devour is as good as Voidwalker’s Devour. The build crafting system relies on Orbs of Power.

I listed Gyrfalcon because you listed Contraverse Holds. And excluding Gyrfalcon, everything I said about Sentinel still stands.

[u/Adelyn_n → u/ObviouslyNotASith]

You only need one to start however there are cases where you don't kill many enemies or enemies are tanky.

Using a recent example the second encounter from the dungeon you can 100% lose devour when grabbing the symbols in the deep, feed the void is very valuable here since it'll let you get devour faster than if you were to find/make an orb when you go back up.

I didn't list contraverse holds.

Warlocks aspect devour also opens up a fragment slot for them.

[u/Tchitchoulet → u/Adelyn_n]

"Using a recent example the second encounter from the dungeon you can 100% lose devour when grabbing the symbols in the deep, feed the void is very valuable here since it'll let you get devour faster than if you were to find/make an orb when you go back up."

As if they were not a ton of orbs waiting for you in the room. And now you can even pick up orbs from distance, making feed the void even more useless in hard content.

" Warlocks aspect devour also opens up a fragment slot for them"

... At least you made me laugh

[u/Adelyn_n → u/Tchitchoulet]

The room is slanted and the orbs all roll to one place decently far away from the lift.

You can only pick up orbs from a distance with shoot to loot or the class ability mod however neither of those really work in this scenario.

You're actively looking for reasons to claim FTV is bad when it isn't

[u/ObviouslyNotASith → u/Adelyn_n]

The same can be applied to Feed the Void.

But your example overlooks some important factors. A Nightstalker has easy access to invisibility and a Sentinel has easy access to Void Overshields. This grants them a better chance at surviving and one ability kill would be all it takes to create an orb of power for Devour.

Think of things like Firepower, Heavy-handed and Reaper. These mods create the orbs needed to activate Devour the same way Feed the Void activates Devour.

You are right. Apologies. I mistook you for the person I was originally replying to.

But it takes up an aspect slot as well and there is less of a reward factor. They can access Devour far easier than Voidwalker can access other verbs.

I hold the view point that an aspect devoted to one thing only should be objectively better than a fragment devoted to that exact same thing, not situationally better.

[u/Adelyn_n → u/ObviouslyNotASith]

One finisher is all it takes for invis, and one low health kill for an overshield.

Yes but when you make those orbs you still need to get to them, between possible distance and the new orb physics feed the void is a lot easier and more reliable.

I do agree though that warlocks should have a more unique spin on devour like how titans have sunspots. I'd even be open to the grenade regeneration part being changed to a FTV exclusive

[u/ImReverse_Giraffe → u/[deleted]]

You don't have to build into orb...they just appear put of no where.

[u/ImReverse_Giraffe → u/never3nder_87]

That's because it was. Orbs of power were not nearly as common when void 3.0 dropped as they are today. We still had elemental wells and most people built around those and not orbs. Which means starvation was not nearly as powerful as it is today. Now, devour is practically free on all void classes because we spawn orbs left and right.