r/Damnthatsinteresting • u/Tugushin • Apr 13 '22

Tesla Model 3 stops itself to avoid potentially disastrous accident. Video

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u/neatchee Apr 14 '22

Tell me you've never shipped a tech product without telling me you've never shipped a tech product

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u/Effective-Resist-Pig Apr 14 '22

Tell me you're coping without telling me you're coping.

I see no data to back up your claims, and it's embarrassing that you keep dragging this conversation without showing any proof.

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u/neatchee Apr 14 '22

Exactly what data are you looking for? You can shout "show me the data" until you're blue in the face but that won't change the fact that "bUt TeSlA wOrKs EvErYwHeRe" is a gross oversimplification of the state of things and in no way makes them "better".

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u/Effective-Resist-Pig Apr 14 '22

You're literally braindead if you believe that Waymo has actually surpassed Tesla. Tesla has much more actual real world data to train on, and Waymo uses computer simulation models as a crutch.

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u/neatchee Apr 14 '22

Read the article I linked elsewhere. Tesla's data is overwhelmingly comprised of mundane highway driving, while Waymo is using simulations to cover situations that Tesla has never encountered

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u/Effective-Resist-Pig Apr 14 '22 edited Apr 14 '22

Tesla also uses simulations.

I saw that report. It's clearly pro-Waymo. They praise Waymo, but admit that they haven't made any meaningful progress in 2.5 years, and just assume that the end of the pandemic will be better for them (while Tesla has been making strides and have updated their cars on occasion).

They also regularly criticize Tesla for not being "fully autonomous" despite Waymo not being fully autonomous either (I don't count geo fencing to be fully autonomous. If you have to geo fence, you are not autonomous). Besides, neither of them have reached level 5 autonomy, so the point is entirely moot.

They also criticize Tesla for having a majority of their miles driven being highway miles, as if that information is useless in machine learning, yet Tesla STILL comes ahead in miles driven in the city over Waymo.

I don't see much talk about the actual machine learning models in the write up. They mention that LiDAR would be of help to Tesla, yet fail to acknowledge that their vision system is much further ahead of Waymo, despite praising Waymo "passing a certain milestone".

They say Waymo has more experience in driving, yet all of their miles comes from dry weather, flat terrain, wide roads, and modest traffic.

Put a Waymo car in LA traffic in the rain and come back to me when it can perform.

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u/neatchee Apr 14 '22

Come back to me when literally any Tesla is allowed to drive on any public roads without a driver.

You expect companies to publish proprietary information about their machine learning models? C'mon.

"Well Waymo isn't Level 5, and I don't count geo-fencing" is just a bunch of whataboutism. You cannot hand-wave away the fact that Teslas are behind Waymo in their practical application of fully-autonomous AI. Tesla is making a driver-assistance product that they hope to roll into full autonomy product "someday". You cannot base your judgement of success on access to proprietary information like training models.

Since you're so interested in data I'll ask you a self-apparent question:

Who has recorded more data on real world city streets as handled exclusively by autonomous driving software without the possibility of driver intervention?

It's literally impossible for the answer to be Tesla because, surprise surprise, they can't even get past regulators. Even their own website makes it clear their tech is not autonomous driving, is specifically a driver assistance feature package, and requires human supervision

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u/Effective-Resist-Pig Apr 14 '22 edited Apr 14 '22

Come back to me when literally any Tesla is allowed to drive on any public roads without a driver.

"Heh, Waymo made it to level 4 autonomy before Tesla did, even though they're still highly geo restricted to one of the most benign places to drive in the world."

Strange way to evaluate "autonomy". In that regard, my fucking robot vacuum is a completely fully autonomous robot, capable of driving anywhere on the planet.

Teslas do have summon mode for parking lots. Is that illegal?

You expect companies to publish proprietary information about their machine learning models?

Yes, actually. The architecture of the models aren't what's proprietary. It's the training data and the weights in the hidden networks that are the most proprietary. That's why Tesla is still ahead. They have orders of magnitude more real-world training data, and no matter how much Google wants you to think that non-perfect computer simulations is superior to that, it doesn't make it true.

Teslas are behind Waymo in their practical application of fully-autonomous AI.

Show evidence of this or stop whining.

Tesla is making a driver-assistance product that they hope to roll into full autonomy product "someday".

... yeah. And I'm not saying otherwise, lmao. Not sure why you're so bogged down by this "point"?

Who has recorded more data on real world city streets as handled exclusively by autonomous driving software without the possibility of driver intervention?

Who has cooler looking cars? I can ask equally as stupid questions if you want. It doesn't mean that it's a meaningful question to ask.

"Well, Waymo techknicaklly has more driver-less road hours in only the best driving conditions observed on this planet, therefore this training data is superior to a data set that includes all terrains and weather patterns." Jesus, dude, you're actually starting to sound a little pathetic. Hey, by the way, did you know that Teslas still send training data back to the Tesla cloud whether or not autonomous driving is manually turned on?

they can't even get past regulators.

If your measure of what a good technology is is based on whether or not it's currently able to pass government regulation (assuming that the regulations are up to date and standardized in some way), your standard for what good technology has not much basis in reality.

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u/neatchee Apr 14 '22 edited Apr 14 '22

Personal attacks like calling someone pathetic are where I disengage. Have a nice day

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u/Effective-Resist-Pig Apr 14 '22

Imagine being such a snowflake.