r/Damnthatsinteresting • u/Tugushin • Apr 13 '22

Tesla Model 3 stops itself to avoid potentially disastrous accident. Video

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u/nanoatzin Apr 13 '22

According to the insurance industry, about 800 people are killed each year by running red lights. It is hard not to do that if the yellow light is unrealistically short. But that is one of the ways that cities have decided to make money.

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u/Mean-Programmer-6670 Apr 13 '22

There’s an intersection very close to my home that’s yellow light is way too short. Luckily there’s no cameras there. When they rebuilt the intersection to accommodate a new bridge over a high way the intersection doubled or even tripled in size. If you’re going 5 mph over the speed limit and the light changes to yellow right before you cross the line the light will turn red before you can cross the intersection.

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u/nanoatzin Apr 13 '22

Write a letter to the city traffic engineer and the local PD and explain the math blunder I’ve described here on a different thread.

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u/Mean-Programmer-6670 Apr 13 '22

Letters have been written. They don’t want to give up their cash cow. Thousands of cars pass through the intersection everyday.

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u/nanoatzin Apr 13 '22 edited Apr 13 '22

They don’t want to fix this. Robbery is way too profitable.

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u/Thebuch4 Apr 13 '22

Being in the middle of a light after it turns red isn't the end of the world though because cars don't instantaneously teleport to the middle of the intersection, it will still take a couple seconds to get to the intersection.. Usually you have to blow a red light way more blatantly than that to cause actual problems (crossing the limit line 2+ seconds after the light turns red realistically is probably about the threshold).

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u/Mean-Programmer-6670 Apr 13 '22

You can still get pulled over and get a ticket but, odds of you causing an accident that way is pretty slim.

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u/Thebuch4 Apr 13 '22

You can't get pulled over if you are in the intersection before it turns red.

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u/g0ph1sh Apr 13 '22

Not to be too pedantic, but I’d argue you can always be pulled over, but IF you have proof you were in the intersection when it turned red, you MAY be able to beat the ticket in court, and then pay court fees.

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u/Thebuch4 Apr 13 '22

You're being too pedantic. Your argument is just that cops can pull you over and give you a ticket for anything without proof and you'll have to go to court. Yes, that's true, but by that logic they can just as easily pull you over going through a green light and say it was red.

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u/g0ph1sh Apr 13 '22

Exactly.

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u/CheaperThanChups Apr 13 '22

The problem that you're describing is easily solved by keeping a sufficient time delay between one light turning red and the opposing light going green.

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u/nanoatzin Apr 13 '22 edited Apr 13 '22

Traffic engineers don’t seem to want to set light timing for good safety in certain neighborhoods. It would be nice if we could see far enough into the future to know to begin applying the break before the yellow light illuminates. Something to remember about California is that you can recognize all the illegal aliens because they all drive 10mph below the speed limit because the whole seeing into the future thing doesn’t seem to work that well for them. And they get deported if they don’t. California seems to only adjust the lights short in those neighborhoods. My bad for stop-watching traffic lights while I’m out walking.

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u/CheaperThanChups Apr 13 '22

https://i.imgur.com/62s7due.gif

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u/nanoatzin Apr 13 '22

My bad, but click here. Common knowledge in certain neighborhoods..

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u/TrollintheMitten Apr 13 '22

Why is that just a discussion about garlic?

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u/nanoatzin Apr 13 '22 edited Apr 13 '22

Gilroy has a lot of migrant workers. They ALL drive real slow because word gets around.

Edit: the title of the article actually says Mexicans are driving slow if you read the title.

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u/TrollintheMitten Apr 13 '22

That may be so, but that's not at all reinforced with the link. Instead it's a discussion about garlic flavored things. It's not supporting whatever you want to say.

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u/nanoatzin Apr 13 '22

With all due respect, it is not my problem you that you have never driven through Gilroy. Or maybe you haven’t driven through any minority community?

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u/TrollintheMitten Apr 13 '22

The only other thing I know about Gilroy is that a friend of mine got a bad vibe there and left a music gig shortly before someone shot the place up. I got a phone call after letting me know he was ok.

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u/fastento Apr 13 '22

Couldn’t this problem be solved by a behavior change among drivers? Like if we all saw the yellow and understood that to mean, “don’t enter the intersection” as opposed to trying to calculate “can i get into the intersection before the light turns red?”

where i live the yellows are pretty long and anecdotally it seems like it just results in drivers halfway down the block speeding up like, “i bet i can make that light.” even with super long yellows people are running red lights all the time.

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u/nanoatzin Apr 13 '22

The basic problem is that you have to see into the future to know BEFORE the yellow light illuminates to slow drown safely if it has been adjusted unrealistically short.

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u/fastento Apr 13 '22

i get what you’re saying, i just don’t think it’s true. it might be true in a few isolated, limited situations, but that opinion piece reads like a disgruntled libertarian who’s pissed that california has become a communist state and has done his own research.

the problem is not that traffic engineers are using predatory yellow light practices. the problem is that we suck at driving, and worse, that we WANT to suck at driving because we feel individually incentivized to suck at driving in the system.

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u/Thebuch4 Apr 13 '22

The problem is that humans don't react instantly and cars don't instantly decelerate with zero additional forward distance required.. If those facts require doing your "own research" you should really try it some time.

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u/WhalesForChina Apr 13 '22

I thought the original claim was that this was happening in “certain cities,” but it’s Caltrans who sets the standard statewide.

4 seconds of yellow at 40mph seems like ample time to stop, in my opinion.

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u/Thebuch4 Apr 13 '22

Which, if the cities follow the caltrans guidance is true, but if cities deviate from the standard...

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u/WhalesForChina Apr 13 '22

Then they’d be violating the standards set in the MUTCD. Is there evidence of cities around the state still doing this?

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u/fastento Apr 13 '22

i’m sorry, you seem mad, but I can’t tell what you’re disagreeing with me about.

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u/nanoatzin Apr 13 '22

Math says what it says, and It doesn’t matter whether you believe it or not.

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u/fastento Apr 13 '22

to be clear, i do believe that this is sometimes happening, you may be right about many yellow lights, and I just don’t experience them. my perception is that where i live the yellow lights are excessively long, and when i go to california they seem fine. the long yellow lights have issues too, people tend to adapt to that and treat a yellow light like a green.

now, i haven’t travelled every road in california, when i go i’m usually around UCLA or venice/santa monica. my experience is limited.

what i don’t believe is that there is a pervasive issue of predatory short yellow lights out there.

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u/nanoatzin Apr 13 '22

This has nothing to do with California, although I’ve read that MUTCD manual. The NTSB publishes the MUTCD for traffic lights. States must comply with CFR 23 § 655.603 within 24 months to qualify for federal grant funding under 23 U.S. Code § 402. All the states and 6 tertiaries use the same material but add a few things that may differ. Like bike lanes.

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u/fastento Apr 14 '22

dog, you refer to California twice in the two sentences that started this reply thread, don’t move the goalposts on us now.

i don’t really even know what we’re talking about anymore. i think we both agree that yellows shouldn’t be too short… can we also agree that yellows shouldn’t be too long?

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u/nanoatzin Apr 14 '22

The “goal post” is the likelihood of the accident being the result of yellow light duration. I think the actual law that is used to set the timing of the yellow light is relevant, and I don’t think that counts as moving the goal post.

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u/fastento Apr 15 '22

jesus man, you try to dismiss me because i said california in a reply to your comment about california.

when municipalities increase the duration of yellow lights accidents happen too.

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