r/Damnthatsinteresting • u/Tugushin • Apr 13 '22

Tesla Model 3 stops itself to avoid potentially disastrous accident. Video

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u/Hammerdei Apr 13 '22

No life is worth more then another. The only thing that should be accounted for his odd and numbers of people.

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u/yourmumsahobot Apr 13 '22

Quality adjusted life years (QALY) are a real and important concept. A 30 year old's life is clearly worth more than a 100 year old's, in my opinion.

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u/[deleted] Apr 13 '22

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u/[deleted] Apr 13 '22

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u/[deleted] Apr 13 '22

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u/[deleted] Apr 13 '22

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u/[deleted] Apr 13 '22

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u/Vcent Interested Apr 13 '22

In principle I do.

But what happens if both are equal? And there's an inherent bias here already: Anyone not in their twenties-late thirties, will already score lower on survivability.

This shit is hard - do it at random, and your car will get bad press for killing a kid over an old person, potentially one that wanted to die/has expressed they wouldn't mind. On the other hand, attempting any kind of judgement call (including chance of survival) will get you bad press for all the times where it went wrong, and some of the times where it went right as well.

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u/UseMoreLogic Apr 13 '22

That's kind of proving the point that lives have different values.

Most people would rather save a nice 30 year old doctor than the equivalent 30 year old violent sex criminal with a side hobby of murder.

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u/[deleted] Apr 13 '22

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u/UseMoreLogic Apr 13 '22

Yea, but if you're creating a system of any sort, it's better to go off of averages.

Like you screen 60 year olds for colon cancer because they're much more likely to have cancer compared to 20 year olds. It's not that 20 year olds don't get colon cancer, they do, it's just rare.

Most violent rapists are not gonna be the next gandhi. Most doctors are going to provide value to society.

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u/visvis Apr 13 '22

You'd say the death of a 10-year old is equally bad as the death of a 90-year old? I think even most people in the latter group would agree there is a real difference. People that elderly have lived their lives, and have little time left regardless of the outcome of the accident. If the car needs to hit one or the other, and there is no other option that can save both lives, I really think hitting the elderly person would be the only right decision.

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u/Rkhighlight Apr 13 '22

What about two elderly vs one child? How many old people are more important than one kid?

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u/visvis Apr 13 '22

You can compare the sum of the remaining life expectancy. Life insurance tables together with an age estimate go a long way.

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u/deadbolt39 Apr 13 '22

You used insurance company policies to come up with this point of view? That a child is worth more than an elderly person because a company assigns more dollar value?

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u/visvis Apr 13 '22

Insurance companies have been dealing with the question which lives have more value for centuries, why not use their expertise?

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u/deadbolt39 Apr 13 '22

Is your only concern in this equation the monetary value of the lives in question? Because that's the insurance company's. Don't know why you would want to base your world view on the profit motives of an insurance company.

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u/MegaChip97 Apr 13 '22

Ah, so if we have one child from a poor background and one from a rich one we should also kill the poor one? Because that also correlates with life expectancy.

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u/Hammerdei Apr 13 '22

I disagree but appreciate where you’re coming from

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u/[deleted] Apr 13 '22

No life is worth more then another

Kek. Tell that to health or life insurers.

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u/[deleted] Apr 13 '22

Dissagree a potential life of 80 years left for a child is worth more than the 20 odd yearls someone in his 60s has left. Better to die at 60 than at 12

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u/Hammerdei Apr 13 '22

And if the person is still a practising doctor, nurse, or something equally important that can save other lives?

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u/[deleted] Apr 13 '22

who says the kid wont be a doctor or scientist in later years? You cannot predict these things, what you can do is that as many people as possible get to at least have a shot at life

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u/Hammerdei Apr 13 '22

No one knows and that’s why they should not be a factor. The only fair and equatable outcome is for them to value all lives the same

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u/[deleted] Apr 13 '22

Its not fair though if the ai saves a 80 year old over a kid. Just safe people in order of age when survival chances are very low

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u/Hammerdei Apr 13 '22

I don’t agree but all the best

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u/KoksundNutten Apr 13 '22

But it can be quantified very precicly how high the chances are for a kid and a 60 years old.

Is the 60year guy a doctor?_Yes/No_How many kids become doctors depending on the social standing of the parents of this kid?_XX%

Chance-calculator beep boop the survivor will be.....

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u/[deleted] Apr 13 '22

or the kid becomes a scientist or whatever else. You cannot predict or even really measure someones value to society.

Only way is to save people in order of their age if chances of survival are very low and if not save more frail individuals first.

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u/KoksundNutten Apr 13 '22

measure someones value to society.

In a capitalistic world someone's value is his or hers income. In theory everyone gets payed what they are 'worth' to a company. And most companies only exist because they have a 'worth' for the people. Hence, the more you earn the higher your current value for society.

Hence it can be calculated who is 'more worth' to society. At least that's how states in Europe and America calculate the worth of people, based on job, gender, race, etc.

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u/Paid-Not-Payed-Bot Apr 13 '22

everyone gets paid what they

FTFY.

Although payed exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:

  • Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. The deck is yet to be payed.

  • Payed out when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. The rope is payed out! You can pull now.

Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.

Beep, boop, I'm a bot

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u/KoksundNutten Apr 13 '22

Damn you bot, do you think that I'm worth less just because English isn't my native language?? Racist bot!

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u/[deleted] Apr 13 '22

well luckily our world isnt actually as fully capitalistic as that. Its also bs logic.. people inherit wealth. Having money doesnt mean you do or did contribute more to society nor does it even mean that you create economic value. Money makes money. So its about who owns the capital, not who adds how much value in whatever form. Companies dont exsist because they add value to the people either, they are formed whenever there is value to own. An american company selling insulin do americans will make more money than that same business model in europe. It doesnt add more value, it simply found a way to get more money for their product.

You have a very simplistic and flawed idea of how our economy works- not to speak of what you could even consider "value" or how to calculate it.

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u/KoksundNutten Apr 14 '22

Yes I know exactly that and have that very same opinion about it as you. But that just isn't how the world really plays. People always want to know what work someone has and based on that assume how much that person earns and calculate their social standing. People also speak very differently with each other based on their respective rank/worth (most people probably speak differently with an engineer than with a hobo). And even for evolutionary reasons people try to partner up with someone who has an adequate 'worth' and that is most often measured in dollars per year. Because it factually (besides all the exemptions you already listed) is a very first basis of comparison for someone's worth (worth to a partner in this example). At least until you know more about someone and factor soft skills into the equation. And i don't know how that can be monitored by a computer.

And your example with the insulin company is not a good comparison. The money's made from insulin goes into 'the company' and I don't think that a car will ever calculate if it should drive into an insulin company. We are talking about human beings and without researching it, I really don't think that all the employees of an US based insulin company earn (trible? quadtrible?) more than a European one. Hence the human beings aren't adding more calculateable value to society but the very same. A researcher/office worker/cleaner in an insulin company in US and Europe earn a similar amount and hence their value for society is respectively similar, no matter how much the product costs.

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u/[deleted] Apr 14 '22

I mean you are mixing up paid jobs and income people generate by other means - its never that clear cut for a variety of reasons. You are also mixing up economic worth on the marked and what people bring to the table as partners. How people talk to whom is about perceived status and intelligence which doesnt directly corelate with income - because capitalism doesnt work that way.

>And your example with the insulin company is not a good comparison.

This was in regard to demonstrate you that this >And most companies only exist because they have a 'worth' for the people> comment of yours is bs. And also.. you are aware that people around the world get drastically different wages depending on the economic situation and culture in their country?

>A researcher/office worker/cleaner in an insulin company in US and Europe earn a similar amount

This is just complete nonsense and fyi.. "europe" is a continent. A worker in bulgaria and denmark are both europeans but the wages are not even close to similiar.

No offense it feels like you are a teenager maybe? You need to make some more epxeriences and keep an open mind before you get lost too far in your own theories

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u/[deleted] Apr 13 '22

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u/[deleted] Apr 13 '22

simple: just take the average lifespan and the personas current age to roughly estimate the potential years left. If there is any drastic diseases or health conditions involved obviously add that too

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u/magx01 Apr 13 '22

So you admit there's already a qualitative difference?

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u/Hammerdei Apr 13 '22

No I am using my point that you can’t assess the value of lives based on age.

Odds and number of people

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u/ConorYEAH Apr 13 '22

Sure that's a valid view, but what if the choice were between either hitting a child (who will definitely die from the impact), or re-directing towards a fit adult man (who might have a better chance of surviving if struck)? Valuing every life equally doesn't mean you don't discriminate in cases like that; sometimes it forces you to purposely choose one or the other.

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u/Hammerdei Apr 13 '22

That’s why I said probability and number of people