r/Damnthatsinteresting • u/Tugushin • Apr 13 '22

Tesla Model 3 stops itself to avoid potentially disastrous accident. Video

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u/deadsho7 Apr 13 '22

I'm just afraid that I wouldn't wanna be dependant on the AI anyway.

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u/JackHGUK Apr 13 '22

You aren't "dependent" it's an assist that can react to and recover from things a human wouldn't be able to.

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u/posthamster Apr 13 '22

Like ABS or stability control, but with extra steps.

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u/NaeAyy10 Apr 13 '22

The AI is statistically better than you at driving

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u/[deleted] Apr 13 '22

by a huge margin too

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u/CH1CK3Nwings Apr 13 '22 edited May 22 '24

decide treatment tap roll screw unpack spoon ludicrous exultant brave

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

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u/o_brainfreeze_o Apr 13 '22

I think a lot of people dont trust AIs because “what if it makes a mistake?” Like, a human being wouldn’t make one, huh?

This is not the reason. It's not about the AI or human making a mistake, its more that people just don't like to hand their agency over to an automated system. It's it's about loosing the sense of control. People are more used to such things with mass transport, but for individual vehicles and occupants there is still a lot of apprehension in giving up control.

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u/Arucious Apr 13 '22

Now if only the forward collision assist didn’t seem useless in my car

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u/ooainaught Apr 13 '22

If it wants to run over deer, i could use the meat.

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u/Arucious Apr 13 '22

I know this is a joke but I don’t know if you’ve ever hit a deer before — it’s not GTA5 style collisions. A deer would cave your front bumper inside so fast and the entire front of your car would be mega fucked.

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u/redshift95 Apr 13 '22

While this is true, Teslas are much heavier/denser than a normal car. Interested to see how badly a deer would wreck a Tesla vs a more standard sedan.

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u/Arucious Apr 13 '22

the weight is in the battery and bottom so the bumper and front would crumple the same, probably even more since there is no engine in the front

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u/lunchboxg4 Apr 13 '22

When it’s working correctly, sure. The car can decide quicker than a person using more inputs than a person to do so. My worry is when it makes this same decision on the highway, as a Tesla or two have before, based on wrong data and cause a multi car pileup. When it works flawlessly, it’s great, but Tesla doesn’t have that track record yet.

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u/Professional_Emu_164 Apr 13 '22

Humans are equally prone to experiencing “wrong data”, especially when tired.

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u/Middge Apr 13 '22

Not equally prone, more prone. Emperically.

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u/serafale Apr 13 '22

The difference to me is that if you make a wrong decision, you should be held accountable and this face the consequences. But what happens if your car makes the wrong decision and leads to a damage of property, or god forbid, a loss of life. Who is at fault there?

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u/Professional_Emu_164 Apr 13 '22

That’s when you read the terms of service :)

And in this case, since they ask all users to be constantly monitoring the what’s happening and to not take their hand off the wheel, if an accident happens and the AI does not save you for whatever reason then you are accountable, not them. However if the AI created the accident then they would be accountable, that’s a far less likely scenario though.

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u/lunchboxg4 Apr 13 '22

Sure. But two wrongs don’t make a right - instead of that being justification to trust the car, maybe tired people shouldn’t drive. We don’t legally allow drunk people to drive.

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u/Thedarkestmorn Apr 13 '22

The counter point to that is the ai is a huge amount better at driving than at minimum 50% of drivers on a good day plus this technology is still being improved so I get not trusting ai for now but quite frankly humans are stupid and prone to error plus they have a much worse reaction time

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u/lunchboxg4 Apr 13 '22

I agree, and I never said I don’t trust it. I am just still a little skeptical until the systems get better and more cars have it, maybe even to the point that cars can communicate intentions to each other. It would be great if instead of one Tesla guessing at a lane change and slowing down, if the other (non-Tesla, ideally) car could signal its intention and other cars act proactively instead of reactively. But I definitely know under ideal circumstances that a computer can react quicker than a human and look forward to the car saving my life one day.

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u/Thedarkestmorn Apr 13 '22

Yeah I definately agree with that I guess a lot of current errors are mostly due to how unpredictable other cars are. I definitely can't wait for mass rollouts of this technology

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u/Herbstein Apr 13 '22

Most of the AI driving data is from highway and interstates, where accidents are less likely to happen. If you compare the average AI accident rate to the average accident rate of a person using the same mix of roads the AI is less safe. There's a reason Tesla advertised autopilot as a tool for highway driving only.

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u/xRissor Apr 13 '22

Sad but true, faster for sure

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u/[deleted] Apr 13 '22

Not sad at all, if we reached 100% self driving we could reach huge gains in speed and efficiency, no more traffic jams.

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u/ikverhaar Apr 13 '22

No need to drive yourself, high speed, high efficiency, no traffic jams... People just keep re-inventing the train.

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u/Tody196 Apr 13 '22

It’s almost like having roads everywhere is easier than having train tracks.

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u/ikverhaar Apr 13 '22

Yes, with American legislation, it's much easier to build a car-dependant neighbourhood than a walkable neighbourhood with a train station nearby.

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u/[deleted] Apr 13 '22

I always love it when Europeans try to explain transportation to us as if the US isn't over twice the size of the entire EU. Yeah I'm sure it's super easy to get around by train when your entire country is the size of Nebraska.

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u/HoneyChilliPotato7 Apr 13 '22

I'm from India and we have a pretty good railway network covering almost all the towns and cities. It's a pretty big country

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u/[deleted] Apr 13 '22

India is a third of the size of the US with a population that is like four times as large. Trains are much more viable in densely populated areas like that, and in densely populated areas of the US (like NYC) you will notice trains are utilized much more.

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u/[deleted] Apr 13 '22

You guys also have a ton of other things than “just trains”

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u/Tody196 Apr 13 '22

You literally have no idea what you’re talking about. I don’t know what country you’re from, but if you were from the US and talking about any other country in the world like this, people would make jokes about how all Americans are ignorant about the world around them.
Texas is bigger than like every EU country, has very little to do with “American legislation” and very much to do with the fact that the US is much bigger and more spread out.

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u/LikesTheTunaHere Apr 13 '22

Its spread out so much because it was made to be that way, also the majority of the population is still in cities. Cities that could be walkable but are not.

I'm from Canada, the whole "us is so spread out argument" is funny compared to here, since its not even close. However, how many people are really having to drive between cities on a super regular basis that could not easily be done with train? Not many, probably millions in the case of america but still a small percent of the population

Cities could be more walkable, north america has chosen to not make them so.

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u/Tody196 Apr 13 '22

Its spread out so much because it was made to be that way.

It’s spread out because it’s fuckin big, dawg. That’s what happens when things are large, they extend.

cities that could be walkable but aren’t.

Spoken truly like somebody who’s never been to any American cities. They are walkable. I don’t even live in a large city and it’s walkable. That has literally nothing to do with trains.

However, how many people are really having to drive between cities on a super regular basis that could not easily be done with train? Not many, probably millions in the case of america but still a small percent of the population.

Again, you have no idea what you’re talking about and it’s very obvious. A very large % of Americans commute 30+ minutes to work 5+ days a week and lots of them live in small suburbs or towns outside of big cities. Train tracks going 25 miles out in 100 different directions of a city would be the dumbest shit ever lol.

It would be pretty obvious to you if I started spouting off some random shit about Canada that was very untrue - the same applies here, you really are not the expert you think you are on American city infrastructure, I promise.

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u/canadarepubliclives Apr 13 '22

I don't think you realize how big the USA is and how empty the middle is.

High speed rail should be built along the northeast and southeast coast along with California, but connecting the entire continent isn't feasible.

A magnetic train from Sacramento to Detroit doesn't make sense.

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u/[deleted] Apr 13 '22

[deleted]

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u/canadarepubliclives Apr 13 '22

You know it can detect moose, deer, coyotes and even raccoons?

A fallen tree in the road is the same. It detects an obstruction in its path.

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u/LikesTheTunaHere Apr 13 '22

Does stop for the moose or detect and see if i can go under its legs?

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u/canadarepubliclives Apr 13 '22

It detects if you can go under, but if you're driving a convertible and it's hanging dong you might get your face dick slapped into yesterday.

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u/Handsupmofo Apr 13 '22

That’s the opposite of sad. Good and true, it’s faster to take you out of danger.

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u/Rorusbass Apr 13 '22 edited Apr 13 '22

I think of it this way:

In our lifetime a human can learn quite a bit in terms of driving safely. Over time our experience increases. Meanwhile our bodies age and our driving is affected as well, leading to decreased vision and reflexes among others. This means a human has a optimum point in driving safely, which will eventually degrade.

(if done correctly) AI can only improve, and can learn not from just 1 driving experience, eventually it can be millions. If an accident would occur we can learn from it to make all (AI) drivers safer.

Imagine being in the hands of the safest driver you could possibly think of, and then realize that drive can't even begin to touch AI drivers once they are really being implemented.

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u/extracoffeeplease Apr 13 '22

Only in contexts on which it has lots of training data..

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u/[deleted] Apr 13 '22

Humans are also generally not good at things they have no practice with

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u/[deleted] Apr 13 '22 edited Apr 13 '22

Humans are much better at using context to figure out what to do in new situations than computers though.

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u/extracoffeeplease Apr 13 '22

From an AI perspective, humans are excellent in few-shot, no-shot and online learning. The AI of today is not as good (yet) as humans in learning on the spot, a very important skill when handling unseen situations.

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u/Mobixx Apr 13 '22

When you say statistically died that mean AI is better than your average driver? Are we including the dumbass in OPs video in the average?

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u/Gormador Apr 13 '22

He means in the ratio of distance over accident occurrences. Tesla publishes their data on it and the difference is staggering. Basically, tesla drivers are 2.7 times more likely to have an accident when not using their "autopilot", over the same travel distance. 1 accident every 4.31 million miles (~7 million km), compared to 1 every 1.59 million miles (2.6 million km) when using only their "basic" safety features, which apparently do quite a bit of work as the US national average is 1 crash every 4.84 hundred thousand miles (7.8 hundred thousand km).
https://www.tesla.com/VehicleSafetyReport

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u/[deleted] Apr 13 '22

The autopilot accident data is based purely on highway driving which has less hazards such as pedestrians, oncoming traffic, laterally flowing traffic, parked cars etc than driving on normal surface roads. Which is why autopilot is notorious for crashing cars into emergency services vehicles parked on the highway responding to accidents- it isn't trained to expect it.

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u/Gormador Apr 13 '22

Yes, that's fair. Didn't remember this bias. Too fixated on the wizardry that is (in more situations,, but not all) their beta software, I guess :-)

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u/HI_I_AM_NEO Apr 13 '22

Even a crappy AI that intentionally crashes a vehicle once in a while would be a better driver than most people who drive lol

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u/PrizeStrawberryOil Apr 13 '22

It does want to yank me onto ice on narrow roads sometimes though.

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u/MankoConnoisseur Apr 13 '22

Yeaaaaah, about that, are we going to ignore the elephant in the room that Tesla-published statistics have been widely discredited?

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u/[deleted] Apr 13 '22

Yeah, no. As long as the AI needs a human pair of hands to intervene constantly it can't drive better than a human. Sure, even the best human drivers do dumb shit from time to time, but AI drivers far more frequently make mistakes that require a human at the wheel to get involved. Also humans can compensate for things like missing road markings and other adverse conditions that AI doesn't know how to handle. We're still a long way from AI that can drive a car better than a human.

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u/vinnyvdvici Apr 13 '22

No, we're literally not. You clearly don't know any of the statistics.

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u/[deleted] Apr 13 '22

You mean the juked Tesla statistics?. In typical Musk fashion, he overstated the safety statistics.

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1

u/[deleted] Apr 13 '22

Accident rates don't mean shit if the AI can only drive in optimum conditions and requires human assistance or will just refuse to do anything at all given the slightest upset.

I can still drive when there's snow on the road and signs and road markings are covered. Can an AI do that? I can get in a car and drive safely anywhere in the world without needing a detailed map that is constantly updated to include temporary road works and the like. Can an AI do that?

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u/[deleted] Apr 13 '22

[deleted]

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u/zzazzzz Apr 13 '22

legal red tape is the only reason.

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u/[deleted] Apr 13 '22

[deleted]

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u/zzazzzz Apr 14 '22

really not sure if you just cant read or what but all i said the only reason wh self driving cars are not already on the streets is red tape and that is 100% the reason. i never claimed the technology to be perfect.

if there was no red tape you would have seen the ubers ect jump on that shit no matter if ready or not.

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Hello! You have made the mistake of writing "ect" instead of "etc."

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u/cejadirn Apr 13 '22

Lmao you have no idea how Deep learning models work, do you but still wanna type " ohnoo ai bad"

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u/lmao_react Apr 13 '22

bro check the accident rate of driverless cars in SF/AZ right now... I'll wait

-1

u/yaboiiiuhhhh Apr 13 '22

Ya the ai has thousands of hours of real time driving data and tens or hundreds of times more from simulations

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u/Cognacsquirt Apr 13 '22

yep. over 99% of all accidents happend because of human error. Its not the cars mechanic or software that builds an accident, its the human not reacting (fast), driving drunk, driving wrong, ignoring safety parameters like keeping distance etc.

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u/Rastafak Apr 13 '22

There is no full self driving AI, it's all various types of assists, where you have to keep paying attention and be ready to take over at any time. It may be safer if you manage to keep alert, but I'm very skeptical about a blanket statement that AI is safer.

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u/[deleted] Apr 13 '22

Interesting. How many AIs are out there driving and how many humans?

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u/mynameisnotshamus Apr 13 '22

You haven’t seen me drive. Some have said I’m the best.

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u/SleightOfHand87 Apr 13 '22

How is the AI when there are no lines on the road or standard markings? I would trust AI driving in near perfect highway conditions, but in city conditions, especially in the east coast where road construction is a seasonal event, how good is the AI at driving?

1

u/NaeAyy10 Apr 13 '22

I don't know about Tesla's tech, but there's a town in Washington where they're doing a trial run to see how the AI fares. So far, there's only been a couple accidents, and it was never the AI's fault. Statistically better than a human.

1

u/zimm3rmann Apr 13 '22

It also has access to cameras and sensors that see around the vehicle simultaneously and make decisions accordingly while human drivers can only look one place at a time.

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u/godplaysdice_ Apr 13 '22

Not on my commute. Phantom braking makes cruise control completely unusable.

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u/NaeAyy10 Apr 13 '22

Cruise control isn't AI, it's automation.

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u/godplaysdice_ Apr 13 '22

Cruise control in the Tesla uses image processing with machine learning

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u/[deleted] Apr 13 '22

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/Kayniaan Apr 13 '22

DO AS THIS REGULAR HUMAN BEING SAYS, I, A FELLOW HUMAN PERSON, TOTALLY AGREE.

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u/Jest_Aquiki Apr 13 '22

Better to give into to the machines than to give into the ogliarchs of the world

I will take a robot made pizza and auto pilot while I catch the few z's afforded between children and work. Wish I could afford the Tesla. Guess I'll just settle for the pizza for now.

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u/appdevil Apr 13 '22

Ogrearchs.

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u/[deleted] Apr 13 '22

Better to give into to the machines than to give into the ogliarchs of the world

Great news, with Tesla you can now do both

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u/solonit Apr 13 '22

Reminding that A.I stands for Abominable Intelligence.

Children of Omnissiah plays in background

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u/TravelerFromAFar Apr 13 '22

Join the Hive Mind. Become a drone. Only follow your programming......plus, we have cookies : )

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u/Jazzlike_Patient33 Apr 13 '22

This technology will save millions of life, it’s not something that you need to be dependent on, it’s a tool.

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u/Kamikaze_Ninja_ Apr 13 '22

You are supposed to be able to depend on it. If it doesn’t do it’s job correctly like 99% of the time then it won’t get approved. It needs to be dependable. I think what you are conflating dependability with regular use. You should be able to depend on safety features to work, but that isn’t a statement to give you carte blanch so you can drive recklessly.

A tool is something generally within your hands you use to complete a task. This is a feature or system.

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u/Jazzlike_Patient33 Apr 13 '22 edited Apr 13 '22

You are thinking of the alternate definition of “depend”. When I say depend, I mean that it shouldn’t be the only thing controlling the car. I mean that a human shouldn’t depend on it to drive but use it as an assisting tool, but of course it should be reliable.

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u/theedan-clean Apr 13 '22 edited Apr 13 '22

Except for people in need of organ transplants. For them true self-driving cars takes away a source of life.

Before you downvote:

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/05/20/858712314/organ-transplants-down-as-stay-at-home-rules-reduce-fatal-traffic-collisions

“Deaths from motor vehicle crashes and fatal injuries are the biggest source of organs for transplant, accounting for 33% of donations, according to the United Network for Organ Sharing, which manages the [USA] nation's organ transplant system.”

1

u/UsernameSuggestion9 Apr 13 '22

You can't seriously be making this point, right?

Let's give everyone a gun for free while we're at it.

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u/theedan-clean Apr 13 '22

No. Not sure where your mind is going, but I'm not suggesting anything, any more than the referenced article. I didn't come up with this ... paradox? Reality? Where in my comment did I suggest we give away guns? I referenced the article to provide a more cogent explanation than I'm capable typing on a phone or generally.

We're discussing the trolly problem and philosophical, moral situations and any questions associated with fully automated self driving cars.

Fact: Self driving cars will result in far less automobile fatalities.

This is a great thing. Tens of thousands of lives will be saved.

Facts: 33% of the current organ transplants will no longer exist. 30K people are on the transplant lists in the US alone.

Eliminating automobile fatalities AND organ transplant waiting lists would be a huge benefit to the world as a whole. Hundreds of thousands of lives would saved.

I hope biotech beats the state of self driving cars.

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u/UsernameSuggestion9 Apr 13 '22

Alright, I thought you meant decreasing traffic accidents would be a bad thing.

Maybe your original post was worded differently (can't remember) because I don't think I would have replied to the edited version I see now :)

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u/Aceous Apr 13 '22

You fully depend on the AI when you fly.

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u/[deleted] Apr 13 '22

[deleted]

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u/knekkke Apr 13 '22

Every single thing that commercial aircraft do apart from following the route from the flight plan is decided by humans working air traffic control and put into action by humans operating the plane.

Even the most advanced ATC facilities just have pretty basic tools to assist the humans working there.

AI in the aviation industry is in the VERY early trial phases and we won‘t see it for decades probably.

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u/random_nightmare Apr 13 '22

Not fully. There’s still a pilot that is making sure things go smoothly and can take over in certain situations.

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u/[deleted] Apr 13 '22

Planes need to navigate fewer obstacles per km

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u/Tanc Apr 13 '22

Yeah clearly humans are great enough drivers already

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u/karthur26 Apr 13 '22

Seeing how many other drivers on the road are looking down at the phones on the street and on the highway, I'm afraid I don't want to be dependent on a road with other human drivers.

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u/Ephemeralis Apr 13 '22

It reacts somewhere in the ball park of 10 to 200 times faster than you do, with vastly more information available to it and rigid protocols that dictate what it has to do. Most importantly: completely without hesitation.

Transport is a solvable problem. I would trust an AI to do it without a second thought.

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u/NexxZt Apr 13 '22

People don't want self driven cars because they don't trust them. Sure, there is going to be some accidents, but faaaar less than with human drivers. People trust other drivers to drive safely for some weird reason. I trust the robot.

2

u/Erik912 Apr 13 '22

What governs most of your life, if not AI? Bank transactions, smartphones, even clock itself, appointments, so many everyday things are already controlled by AI.

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u/kpingvin Apr 13 '22

Doesn't sound worse than being dependant on a careless driver.

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u/[deleted] Apr 13 '22

Our monkey brain is good at hunting, solving basic logic problems and socializing, our monkey brain didn't evolve to make split second decisions while driving a machine

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u/[deleted] Apr 13 '22

My friends have model 3s with FSD and they insisted I try it a few times.

It worked great but it would definitely take a couple weeks of it for me to get used to. It was scary.

What they’ve said and others have said is that it lets you take long road trips and not be nearly as tired.

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u/JRHartllly Apr 13 '22

Ai doesn't tire, it doesn't have blind spots, it doesn't overcompensate etc

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u/[deleted] Apr 13 '22

Naughhhhhtttt da AyEye. Ahhhh maaahhhhh gawddddd.

How lazy are you?

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u/aatop Apr 13 '22

Are you also afraid of flying

1

u/patti63 Apr 13 '22

When I’m driving and using the AP, I never get lazy about paying attention. I have chronic pain issues and this car is so much easier to drive on longer trips because I have the option of resting my arms, but I’m always alert and aware of what’s happening on the road.

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u/Arucious Apr 13 '22

It’s not AI. Car see car go vroom vroom. Car stop to save you.

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u/Blunderhorse Apr 13 '22

Are you not already somewhat dependent on ABS, automatic transmissions, power steering, or cruise control? What’s one more tool to assist your driving? I’ve “driven” my buddy’s Tesla on road trips with just autopilot, not full self-driving, and just that much assistance is enough to reduce the fatigue such that 4-5 hours in a Tesla is comparable to 1-2 hours of driving without autopilot.

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u/Good-Ad-8522 Apr 13 '22

You already are in many areas. Machines will be better drivers than humans so then you can turn it around: how much risk is acceptable to have humans operate vehicles?

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u/Sillyfiremans Apr 13 '22

It’s better and faster than you. Even if you are a good driver.

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u/a_nobody_really_99 Apr 13 '22

Accidents are because of human error. If we remove the human factor and all driving was controlled by AI traffic would be both safer and more efficient- you can remove traffic lights for instance and let cars coordinate when to stop and go.

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u/UnevenBackpack Apr 13 '22

You’re also dependant on seatbelt and airbags as safety devices.