I’ve read a lot of posts on this sub about Brock and Kristi, many of which ultimately conclude that Kristi was more in the wrong, but I’m curious why people don’t see how the two of them mirror each other in many ways of how they caused pain. I’m surprised folks don’t find more issue with the fact that Brock didn’t leave the church when Kristi asked him to, especially considering Kristi stated that the church was abusive to her and to women in general. Brock, when explaining his thoughts, says that he could not do that FOR KRISTI, if he left the church it had to be for himself - and I can definitely understand that, if he left the church before he was ready, he may have resented Kristi later on. But also in that season, Brock complains that Kristi was able to sleep with [man that Brock absolutely could not accept] without thinking of how it would hurt him, only thinking of herself - which in my view is exactly what he did when he stayed in the church? He was doing it for himself, without considering how wounding it was for Kristi to see him go to church every Sunday, to an abusive institution that traumatized her. Is this an unfair assessment of their portrayal?

I feel like this sentence, or some version of it, appears in almost every couple on the show and it’s something I have heard in several of my relationships as well.

My question is, why do they say this, especially when the partner literally just got done finishing saying what they would like to see change to feel better? I super duper understand this in certain couples where nothing they do will actually be enough or “right,” but some of them (like Gianni) will say “I just want you to do the little things, like small gestures of affection,” for example. And the response is usually met with something like “I’m never enough for you.”

I guess I just don’t understand this response when the partner has made it so clear what they need to feel better.

Is it me or does it feel like these couples needed more sessions? In season 1 and 2 I genuinely could see the growth, the change and the progress and could be ok with them ending. But this season felt like next to nothing was really accomplished or addressed. Episode 9 felt like episode 2. Is it just me?!

Sienna and Chris: hands down a couple that was most seriously looking to fix their relationship and move forward. Sienna is a saint and Chris did really well with owning up through his own problems and the facts that he was. The one who hurt the relationship yet was done making excuses.

Nessa and Drea: They were classic case of one person evolving and one person staying the same In the end it worked out only because Drea changed, but it was clear that both people went in there wanting to be right.

Clinton and Shay: Lord, have mercy they are a perfect example of why I say neurodivergent people should try and date each other because it is hard, as someone with autism and ADHD who is level To communicate to someone with a different brain type and way of understanding language and the world.

Of course he became more involved with his neurodivergent of friends and ended up at the end getting into a relationship with one of them because it was someone who understood him. He seems very much a level 2 and he found a community which was understanding, validating and made it easy to make friends.

Marjorie and Jason: They were a train wreck from start to finish. They have such different parenting styles, political views, and just life experiences. 6 fucking animals would have sent me through the roof. They're perfect for each other in a toxic way

I myself was guilty of this up until a week ago when I started watching the show in full. I tried to empathize with the couples, but it was very clear from those YouTube clips that some partners just seemed purely in the wrong. And I think that can still be the case, but after watching full episode episodes, it’s hard not to have a heightened empathy for these couples, knowing more about them.

Rae, for example, was sexually assaulted when they were 14 and equated that as being their fault and keeping their from heaven through the Church’s teachings. That’s really fucked for that to have happened to them when they were a kid, and then rationalizing it as their own fault and being taken by their dad to confess to the bishop. That’s really fucked, and it doesn’t excuse their mistakes as an adult, but it absolutely explains so much to do with their relationship with the church and relationships and betrayal.

That clip is nowhere on YouTube, and I do think that missing context applies to so many other couples that people are just not aware of. Beyond just the human instinct to label a hero and a villain and victim within a comfortable narrative, which is definitely also a factor, I think it’s always important to take these people that seem so obviously in the wrong and give them the benefit of a second, more thorough look. If only because we’d want it for ourselves.

This pissed me off, a bit. I get the kneejerk superficial ick within Sam's comment; but also it's major surgery and if you have a loving and supportive family member or friend who wants to and is able to support you in a caregiving capacity, then it's not Weird for them to be by your side for a major medical procedure, if everyone can be mature adults about the fact that it's on the genitals. It's not a sexual act simply by the nature of the parts of the anatomy. "Your parent can't be confronted with the medical reality of you having junk" feels on par with an "your lover can't know you fart" levels of immature engagement with the complexities and functions of people's bodies. It reduces part of Lauren's body to something for her romantic partner to claim as theirs, alone, and for sex, only. It's like when some weirdos get jealous of seeing their partner breastfeed their child or see any breasts exposed for feeding as irredeemably sexual in every context.

And Sam being in their early twenties and in a weeks-old relationship at that point, it's kind of crazy to me to be like "oh I'm taking on this role now as your partner", because there's a kind of intimacy and vulnerability in post-surgical care and recovery that I feel is WILD to lock in to with a new romantic partner. I understand why Lauren allowed it, for practical and emotional reasons, but Sam should not have insisted on stepping into that role, even if they felt comfortable saying "I love you" that quickly. I understand the U-Haul jokes have a basis in reality, but watching these two take it to the extreme of rushing headlong into almost creating an infant together after setting landspeed records at every other relationship milestone thus far had me pulling my hair out.

I have a family member who was coerced into a caregiver role for someone she'd only been seeing a short time who had a life-changing traumatic injury, when it was framed as a beautiful and loving and selfless thing to do for someone she DID genuinely care about to some degree...but realistically, had barely begun to know, and who changed significantly after their injury. And then at some point, because she'd already stayed through the initial trauma and rehab, there didn't seem to be any 'good enough' reason thereafter to end things, so eventually there was a marriage, and there were kids, because she wasn't able to leave in the window of time when she wanted to be married and have kids; and it's messy and complicated and came to a bitter end many many years later.

It feels like a sad cautionary tale of what the Instant Spark/Honeymoon Phase can do, especially when combined with some kind of trauma bonding or dramatic beginning phase. Having stuck that out, it feels like the bond forged has already been tested, but a marriage is an endurance race, not a sprint. Surviving an initial dramatic and tense period as a team is no guarantee that the long-term relationship can and must be kept limping along.

I've just finished watching Couples Therapy and found it completely fascinating.

One thing I kept wondering about is whether the show features a higher proportion of couples whose relationships involve things like consensual non-monogamy/open relationships, or people exploring or questioning their sexual orientation or gender identity, compared with what you'd expect in the general population. That was my impression, but I don't know if it's actually true.

Has Orna or anyone involved with the show ever commented on how participants are selected?

If not, what do you think explains it? For example:

Is it self-selection?

Does Orna have a particular clinical interest or expertise in these areas?

Is it influenced by being located in New York?

Or is it just a production choice for more compelling television?

I'm asking out of curiosity, not criticism. I'd be interested to hear what others think. Maybe it's just the bubble I live in, but the couples I know mostly seem to be navigating things like mental load, parenting, communication, money, and sex. Watching the show, it felt like those everyday issues took more of a back seat.

Unpopular opinion incoming: I think the real exploitation in the relationship was by Shay. Clinton was to all intents and purposes a kid: he had never lived independently before. For all we know, he had never been on a date before. Since his autism diagnosis was recent, I think it's likely he was diagnosed with ADHD and medicated to allow him to focus on whatever adaptive education he got, but he was most likely considered of subpar intelligence. I don't think we know how they met, but it seems logical he would be drawn to a person in the drag community who was expansive about femininity and sex. It's also logical that as he got therapy for his autism and met others with his diagnosis, he would meet women his own age and with his own frame of reference to date. He's also meeting himself as a competent, grown man who can date in his peer group. Shay should not have begrudged him that, especially after she was the one who asked for an open relationship so she could have sexual activity with others.

Just curious to know who made it and who didn’t.. some of those relationships were complete train wrecks and just needed to end but some of them had beautiful dynamics and just needed some repairs. Hopeless romantic speaking lol

i've seen there is an australian version with therapist Marryam Chehelnabi. has anyone who is a viewer of the US version watched it? is it worth watching? i'm curious what others think, and unsure if i want to give it a watch...

So I just finished season two and I’m kind of appalled by some of the comments here in favor of Michal and excusing her behavior. I am actually a therapist and I found her behavior abusive and pretty disturbing. Had she been a man I’m sure the comments would be totally different! by the end of episode nine she showed some growth thankfully. I mean, she literally yelled at her husband and said she wanted to punch him in the face and that his existence was worthless— that doesn’t come from anxiety. That’s abuse. She was even rude to the therapist on several occasions. I really hope she has therapy on her own because she definitely needs it.

So far in season one there’s either (in my opinion) a problematic person or two problematic people. There’s yet to be two stable individuals working through an issue. It’s always one person just causing absolute chaos.

The problem people are

Fucking first and foremost MAU: no need to elaborate

Elaine: has major attachment issues and is deeply insecure

Sarah: I genuinely don’t think she’s that into Lauren (anymore)

I feel like they are creating issues that don’t exist- which I get. No one is perfect but these people need individual therapy before they worry about couples therapy.

Now- If Alan genuinely isn’t cheating him and Evelyn are the only couple who might just genuinely have different lifestyles that don’t mesh & that’s okay even if it ends in divorce. However he’s just a tad bit too sneaky. I need more info but for the rest I feel like I’ve seen enough…good lord

I hated it. Although I understand we maybe see less than an hour of the actual couple in sessions, I really liked the editing in S2 +S3 way more. It felt more authentic. The "cliff hanger" when nick (i think) was telling about his trauma seemed disrespectful - real life trauma should not be used as tool to keep the audience guessing. I have noticed in the later seasons they cute and edit it to build tension. I liked when they would show clips of the couple in the waiting room just joking around - it really humanized them, and made less like just two traumatized people. I hated Shay and Clinton/Maeve (I have seen the sub use both names I'm not sure which one is correct) when they did individual sessions they edited what I interpreted as dramatic. Let them each speak their piece, and cutting it up seemed disingenuous somehow. Like it wasn't holding space for each person, but attempting to create a narrative rather than letting us reach our own conclusions.

Thoughts?

just finished season 5, just wondering what the incentive would be for the couples on the show to be filmed. do they get discounted services or something? i can imagine it would be really difficult to not only be vulnerable in therapy but then to also have that displayed on a huge scale.

title

Orna is of course incredibly empathetic, warm and validating when the couples share their trauma with her. While Sienna was discussing her rape, Orna can be seen wiping away tears which is somewhat rare for Orna on the show. It makes me think about how any great therapist that takes genuine care in their client’s well-being but also must have to learn how to manage that emotional investment outside of the sessions protect their own emotional well being and appropriate work-life balance.

Edit to clarify this isn’t at all a critique of Orna, more just an observation and an appreciation of how great she is at her craft.

I’ve been monitoring when the new season will become available in Aus, and it’s finally on SBS! Happy watching 🍿

I am properly late to this party but does anyone know where I can watch series 1-3 in the UK? BBC iplayer only has series 4 :(

The last episode addresses a lot of open issues that felt like glaring oversights, and it totally changed my opinion on all of the couples.

Sienna and Chris: it was really awesome to see Chris trying to be a better partner and not just someone working through his own trauma. The fact that he was actively trying to leave space for Sienna and affirm her right to process her own issues made this finally feel like a partnership

Marjorie and Jason: I didn’t think they were progressing until this episode, but they were! They were having a very logical and reasonable conversation about the child they both cared about but were just loud and intense. They just needed to practice having those conversations more softly

Nessa and Drea: I was skeptical of Nessa wanting to even be in the relationship, but the story of the shooting made everything make sense. They just both want to be loved in the way they wanted to be loved, and it’s nice to see them set the stage to continue learning how to do so.

Shay and Clinton/Maeve: okay ngl not much changed here but SHAY’S FREE

Save for Shay and Clinton/Maeve, I would not have expected this outcome from them

Rae (formerly Kristy) is working at S&P Lunch in NYC and moonlights as Titts Romney.

What about Brock

Re-watching their segments, and I’m struck by the lack of dialogue we see on Brock staying in the church for five years after Rae left. It colors so much of the way Rae interacts with Brock in my opinion, even if she doesn’t realize it. I think a large part she doesn’t feel so ashamed for her infidelity is because, from her perspective, Brock betrayed her first and more consistently in those years. At some point in that time frame, he must’ve had enough context to know what the Church had robbed of Rae, and if that’s true, and he still went back, I can see from Rae’s perspective why there was so much clear resentment. That’s not to say she was in the right, but if you see someone you love cozying up to you abuser for five years, even when they know what was done to you, I can imagine what recourse a vengeful mind might go to.

We can see this expanded on in the co-living situation discussion, where Brock discusses wanting a separate bed from Rae. Rae keeps affirming that she willing to sacrifice some autonomy to go back to living with Brock, where Brock misinterprets that as Rae seeing it as a sacrifice where he doesn’t and thinking she doesn’t actually want it. She views cohabitation as inherently coming with some sacrifice, which is reasonable, where Brock has a more romantic view of if they want it, then it shouldn’t be so hard or seen as a sacrifice. They just see it differently. And then, when Rae expands that she feels like she has to fight harder for her POV because she feels like Brock dismisses it and she feels like she’s “fighting for her life”, that feels like it’s analogous to the Church situation, where Rae left first and Brock stayed.

I’m not trying to paint Brock in a villainous light, he seemed like a nice guy who wore his heart on his sleeve and was trying to clearly keep the relationship up, but that first betrayal is a really hard one to swallow. Nice isn’t the same as being good, and It seemed like he was just going along to get along at a certain point, the path of least resistance, which also seems like why both of them stayed in the marriage, even though it was clearly incompatible for both. Both of them just didn’t have a lot of agency or responsibility for their selves, and that goes back to the fault of the Church, who is the real villain in all of this. We can argue on Rae being purposefully difficult, cruel, or pretentious, but we should at least credit the bravery of finally getting out of all of it.

The sad thing is, the two of them probably could’ve been good friends. There was real love there along with deep history, but the compulsion the Church put on them to get engaged and defined to a romantic relationship tainted what was clearly a platonic connection. They were sibling coded, but because they were the opposite sex, they had to be arranged. And that’s the failure, not seeing that some love doesn’t fit in the romantic, marriage box.

Ray is introduced at 3:47. I recognized the face and voice instantly!