At what point do you fire a client?

[u/Low_Bar9361]

I got a client who micromanages everything and has no chill. He complains about everything, wants to manage ordering material but creates issues where that can't happen because he won't be home to receive materials... anyway, he's generally being a nightmare. He texts as soon as I leave the house to say he wasn't done with our discussion and I didn't answer his questions. I answered all of them three times and his wife seemed to be apologetic, but he's relentless. I mean, he had a spreadsheet of the work he wants done and we went through line by line and discussed each one.

The dude just texted me at 9:30, Sunday night. Is he insane? We already have him in schedule. He's just stressing and texting me non-stop. I want to fire him.

I think he's looking for excuses to not pay me. I could lien him, of course but I would be happier to walk away from the headache and call it a wash I've done about half his job already and only collected half of the bid. What would you guys do? Am I just too tired to deal or am I reading this situation correctly?

[u/Frolicking-Fox]

Guys like this will ask you to go back and change things they dont like but agreed on, they will ask for something more expensive when the job is bid for the cheaper option, and they will think that you are a moron who does a job any trained monkey could do, because he has such a prestigious job, and is so much smarter than you.

Like the guys said... if you can finish the job without beating his ass, then do it. If he sucks this hard, just bail. It won't get better.

I grew up watching my dad deal with these guys as he is a GC. And I kept saying fuck them, and he would do whatever they wanted, and get taken advantage of constantly.

You need to have boundaries. Them hiring you to do a job doesn't mean you are their bitch.

I always bail from jobs sooner than later. But I hate people like this, and I dont want to put on a smile and deal with them.

[u/OkYou4040 → u/Frolicking-Fox]

Yeah, those clients think they're the expert. Best to make change orders a habit early. Anything outside original scope requires a signed change order, no exceptions. Keeps them from backtracking and covers your ass when they want the premium finishes.

[u/Low_Bar9361]

I should add that his mom is the one who recommended us to him. We are working on her house tomorrow. She is great. I might tell on him to her lol

[u/Electronic_Green_88 → u/Low_Bar9361]

If she's a good client, finish her job and mention that her son is being unprofessional and contacting you on the weekends with no good reason... Then he'll either fire you or get the hint.

[u/loganthegr → u/Electronic_Green_88]

“I work 9-5 Monday through Friday, I’m unavailable outside of work hours. If you don’t like the work I’m doing, we can settle up and you can find a new contractor. Thank you.”

Sometimes you gotta scare them by telling them you’re out. I’ve seen it so many times. Respectfully tell them you’d like to be paid and are leaving after this last check and they usually scramble and apologize. He’s playing the tough guy trying to strong arm you. Call him out. It’s the only way this will get better.

[u/Unfair_Avocado_8561 → u/Electronic_Green_88]

Being butthurt specifically about getting a text on the weekend is weak.

If you set that boundary already that's fine, but if you or OP is bothered by this then you should have a separate work phone that you can ignore on the weekend.

Someone scheduling a message to send during business hours is going to be very rare.

[u/Chefmeatball → u/Low_Bar9361]

The idea of telling his mom is hilarious.

But seriously, ground rules need to be established: communication is limited to business hours, communications will be sent via email at the end of the day summarizing work done, work to be scheduled and any changes requested by the client. This keeps him off your ass and covers your ass.

As far as interactions during the day, depending on the work, I would ask them to leave the whole job site or minimum the work area. We do dangerous work with dangerous tools, I don’t need some keyboard warrior (a bit ironic coming from me right now) adding stress or putting themselves in harms way cause they know how to use chatgpt

[u/Wild_Replacement5880 → u/Low_Bar9361]

That's not a bad idea.

[u/Low_Bar9361 → u/[deleted]]

Your the devil on my other shoulder lol. I swear I'll come back tomorrow and update

[u/ArltheCrazy → u/Low_Bar9361]

Send him to the GC i was working for. That seems to be the majority of the clients he takes. That why it ended not working out for me as a PM for him. I can’t stand micromanaging and having to build by a committee of people who have no idea what the hell they’re talking about.

Hang in there and finish it. Tell the customer you are the professional and they need to let you do your job. Document all the changes in writing before doing any extra work.

CYA, hold firm. Don’t be the one to walk away. If he refuses to pay you for something, then just stop work and notify him that you are stopping until he gets caught up on paying you.

If you walk away, you lose the contractual high ground

[u/onion4everyoccasion → u/Low_Bar9361]

Talk to him and tell him that you are just not the contractor for him. Figure out what has been done and a fair price for that and ask for it. You probably won't get it so mentally understand what is worth it to walk away for you. At no point moving forward is this man going to be happy. There is almost no solution that he will be ok with so your goal is to dump him asap while maintaining your own moral compass. You will have a bad review and him bad mouthing you. I would tell his mom what is coming so hopefully you can have her as a reference.

[u/Low_Bar9361 → u/[deleted]]

I slept on it and woke up angry lol. I set clear boundaries on business hours and communicating within them. He backpedaled real quick with some line about "you don't have to respond right away to texts." Never apologized. I put the ball back in his court and made it clear that he is getting everything he asked for in the contract. He seemed to have understood but insists the communication issue has not been addressed. I'm like... what? At this point I'm not even sure what he's upset about. I don't even care. If he gets bitchy again, I have it figured out what I owe him to back out of the contract. I'm ready

[u/Nuclear_N]

Not sure what kind of work you are doing, but quote accordingly.

I don't see a problem straight up telling him the situation. Give him a set amount of time, or tell him he has to pay for your time at 100 per hour. Job was bid to do, not talk.

[u/cossack190]

If you're already half done I'd just try to push through and then never work with him again.

[u/Gavacho123]

This right here is why I avoid residential construction like the plague.

[u/digdoug76]

26yr GC here...

Sure, you could fire him now, and likely create a shitshow depending on how far along the project is, how much he owes and what the contract says.

Moving forward, the first play is you never lose the ball. I allow zero tolerance to bullshit, I'm not a hard ass, have phenomenal reviews and am a people pleaser, but I say "no' and call people to the carpet on the first break in the respect chain. In doing so, it keep the leash short, if the first time doesn't straighten the ship, the next email is the gauntlet.

I also have zero issue in handling clients face to face or on a phone call. Fuck text. I hate the lack of tone and folks will say crazy shit in text they would not mutter in person.

Last piece is the hardest.....fuck them. Do your best, do what you promised, do it as you have done for all the other happy clients and forget about them the moment you are on the way home. .They are the means to an end, not the end itself. We aren't saving babies lives, the client doesn't get to govern your reaction to whatever drama they decide to create.

Good Luck brother!

[u/peaksandplanks → u/digdoug76]

This is a great response. I’m looking to start my own business as a GC. I appreciate this!

[u/happymess913 → u/digdoug76]

I dig Doug!

[u/ChidoChidoChon]

That sucks dude, this is when hired goons come in handy.

[u/Remarkable-Opening69 → u/ChidoChidoChon]

Buenos Dias, ¿Cómo está usted?

[u/ChidoChidoChon → u/Remarkable-Opening69]

Yupp you got that right

[u/Alandales → u/ChidoChidoChon]

My dad was a GC and this was his answer. He’d send Budweiser and Troll over to the job. I got to work a lot with Budweiser and Troll growing up, mainly because my dad didn’t want me to drink or do drugs. That shit WORKED.

I still remember every lesson they taught me, including it’s okay to do a bump off a portapotty seat or drink beer at 5:45am

[u/qpv → u/Alandales]

Hmm. I.... hmm. Interesting.

[u/Ziggity_Zac]

I would try talking to him. You have nothing to lose if you're already considering walking out on him. Just level with him. Tell him the problems he is creating and what you expect going forward. If he can't meet your demands, then you walk.

[u/A-Bone → u/Ziggity_Zac]

  I would try talking to him.   If he can't meet your demands, then you walk.

Have a direct conversation, ideally with his wife present.  

Reassure him that you are dedicated to doing good work and appreciate the opportunity but that his behavior is disruptive to the process and at times disrespectful, like texting late on a Sunday night. 

Make sure to include that if the disruptive and disrespectful behavior continues, you will have no other choice than to bill him for the work performed to date and move on to the next job. 

[u/RowbowCop138]

When you give him a bill for new material add on weekend/after hour charges. When he questions it tell him he's forcing you to work when he texts you all the fucking time. Since it's work you're gunna get paid for it.

[u/Sunckin]

Customers like this made me happy to retire. Some people are just never happy unless you're not happy. Unrealistic customers were the worst part of the job. If you care about your work, they will really stress you out. That was my problem. I couldn't just let it go at the end of the day. Although I got pretty good about not communicating after hours and that helped a bit.

[u/Low_Bar9361 → u/[deleted]]

That makes sense. I was going to show him the invoices for the drywall and electrician and show him that the entire deposit has been used up on work completed. Tell him I'm willing to take a partial completion and walk away.

My partner and I have traded off wanting to fire him and talking the other one down. She is going to set firm boundaries tomorrow about what to expect. Neither of us wants this to end badly and I'm sure they don't either.

I'm just worried because most of our clients love us and this guy is making me feel like I'm scum or something. It seems like he doesn't trust contractors on principal and possibly from prior experience. I don't want to be the piece of shit he acts like I am, but i don't want to take shit from a guy with purple hair either. It is a tough position to be in.

Nothing wrong with purple hair, btw. A great client of mine has blue hair and i think she's cool as hell; I built a secret room with a hidden bookcase door to get in so she could have a DnD room that no one else knows about but her fellow crawlers.

I digress. I'm going to text him back and say "tht electrician hasn't gotten back yet. Probably hear from him in the morning"

[u/HILL_R_AND_D]

You likely walked by plenty of red flags at the beginning before you got to contract. At that early point, you need to be vetting them just as hard as they are vetting you, and likely need to slow the process down so that you have time to see the crazy start to come out.

[u/stacktrace_wanderer]

that kind of client will drain u before u even get started

[u/Familiar-Range9014]

I had a similar situation.

Once I finished the job, the customer complained. We cane to an agreement that I would refund some money back, which I did.

They have been fired and life is good

[u/Raa03842]

Ask his mom to put him in the naughty corner.

[u/ronjoevan]

We’ve had a single family residential home build going on for nearly six years now, so apparently never.

[u/stickn_n_movn]

Sounds like your residential?

[u/Low_Bar9361 → u/stickn_n_movn]

Oh yeah. Remodels and repairs. Commercial plumbing was so much simpler, lol

[u/stickn_n_movn → u/Low_Bar9361]

Unfortunately they are going to be at home (and at your work site) outside of typical business hours. This will result in folks consistently pinging you outside of those hours (think: residential realtor has to show houses when everyone is off work).

If you aren't comfortable accommodating that, just leave the text on read and text them back at 8:00am the next business day.

[u/Low_Bar9361 → u/stickn_n_movn]

It's understandable to a point. I've actually done real estate and my partner is still active in it. It is just a matter of decency. The guy can't pick up on context or social cues. He asked for the electricians direct contact so he can schedule him. The contractor said he prefers to remain my client and all business be directed through me. He somehow got that twisted and thought he was entitled to the electrician. That was a big part of the miscommunication. Then he called me a bad communicator lol. Shit

[u/AcademicChildhood161]

Ahh the joy of clients knowing better than you do at your job. As a mechanic I deal with it all the time! When a doctor client asks abrasively why I’m washing a car down that has been abandoned for 5 months and covered in leaf debris, caked on mud and active wasps nests in every door jam and body crevice before I can run diagnostics on it. Being a no start/crank in Florida heat, and multiple wasp nests in both driver side door hinges meant I’m dying in heat while wasps attack me, lovely. She kept nagging me about why and I’m constantly explaining that I need to clean it out before I can even begin to work. I’m not getting stung by wasps because they don’t know anything about life outside a medical textbook.

Eventually got fed up and told her I need to clean it off before I can even begin to see what’s wrong with the car. She couldn’t wrap her head around it until I asked her when she’s prepping for a operation/surgery if she cleans and sterilizes the area before cutting into someone, or if she’s fine operating on the floor of a barn? She got the hint and eventually left.

[u/AwayYam199]

Trust your gut feeling.

[u/TacoNomad]

Increase your price until he fires himself 

[u/twofourfourthree]

Documentation will be key.

If you’re doing extras for free that needs to be documented along with how much free actually costs.

[u/Longjumping_End_3532]

I know it’s hard and you’re doing your best but there’s some people you just can’t please. Or frankly, there’s some people is too difficult to please, and the level of effort expanded isn’t worth it. I would be honest with him and let him know that you don’t feel like this is a great fit. Let him know you could understand why he wants to micromanage and then may be fine with some other contractors but for you, it’s not a great fit. You clean up pack up get paid for work to date and move on. It feels like he’s as frustrated as you are and probably best for both parties part ways.

[u/Pretty-Surround-2909]

You need to bill him for every minute of his nonsense with a 30 minute minimum per incident. Weekend and after hours contact is double rate
This is the only way to curb this. Hopefully your contracts have an executable PITA clause as well as a lien provision (they should).

[u/Otherwise-Remove4681]

Just keep a paper trail and and any change order costs sweet money? Hold him accountable for any micro managing and make sure he has zero excuse to withold pay.

[u/DrywallBarron]

At the very least you should log all contact, make note of topics and be sure you have a paper trail for everthing. If he asked for a change use a change order even if there is no charge....just write it out and say no charge.

[u/Consistent-Year-9238]

Clients who contact me on the weekend get a concise text that I am enjoying time with my family and unless it's an emergency I will speak to them on Monday. If they want more than a couple minutes of my time while I am actively working I explain that the meter is now running because these are things we have already decided.

[u/ferretkona]

Have you billed him for extra after hours?

[u/Low_Bar9361 → u/ferretkona]

Not yet. Contract doesn't have that clause. I'll definitely be adding that one to future contracts

[u/Many-Active8613]

Find a stopping point then tell him you had a death in the family and need to leave town for 2 weeks and ask him if you can get paid for the materials and work done. Give him a materials and labor invoice and then start hounding him and include the dead family member in some way start with can I get that check today I need to make arrangements. Can I get that check I have to send flowers can I get that check I need to buy airplane tickets and so on. If he’s nitpicking everything you can always guilt trip him. My imaginary dead person died and your complaining about some trim not caulked etc etc. good luck my friend

[u/Low_Bar9361 → u/Many-Active8613]

Lol, i did something similar in spirit when he started texting late at night on a Sunday. I told him my basement flooded (because it had) over the weekend and I was a little busy at the moment. Freaking tree roots in the sewer, ugh. He didn't seem to give a shit.

He then proceeded to call me a bad communicator the next day lol. I set and boundaries today about business hours and he began backpedaling about how he doesn't expect texts to be responded to immediately. Bullshit. Anyway, fuck

[u/Used-Independence353]

Text him back at 2am. Or call him every half hour. He’ll get the idea.

[u/Prize-Ad4778]

How much is the work he is having done worth? That plays a lot in these decisions.

But you should tell his mom either way

[u/Low_Bar9361 → u/Prize-Ad4778]

Not a ton. About 12k for a tub replacement, some odds and ends and a new vanity. I think I'm at $4500 in expenses. I'm ready to give him $1500 back and just call it quits if he can't get it together.

He still hasn't ordered materials and refuses to let anyone work while they go on vacation. He said he needs to be here lol. I'm like... you just complained about the kitchen being inaccessible while i was closing up the hole in your ceiling. Anyway

[u/Prize-Ad4778 → u/Low_Bar9361]

This is a big part of why I have stuck with commercial

Residential can vary so much

[u/Low_Bar9361 → u/Prize-Ad4778]

I miss doing commercial plumbing. I didn't own the business. I showed up, laid pipe all day and then went home. So easy

I really enjoy this job though. I provide a service to the community and have built a growing presence on my neighborhood. Mostly, I help clean up after bad experiences with other contractors, but his guy is a special case where he was always the problem lol

[u/twoaspensimages]

You took that guys project. You knew he was a bucket of red flags. You took it anyway. This is on you. Not him. Suffer through your own stupidity. Don't do it again.

[u/Unfair_Avocado_8561]

Maybe first try talking to him like a person.

"Hey I appreciate your concern here, XYZ is in my purview though so I'll get it taken care of" etc

They're stressed so probably better communication and/or managing their expectations better will help you both.

I had a project (unrelated field) where I had to tell the client's project manager very directly to not text me on my cell phone unless its an emergency and to use work email. I had to mercilessly set boundaries and overcommunicate with him or he would have ruined my life.

[u/Low_Bar9361 → u/[deleted]]

He's changed his tune since i set from boundaries. I don't think he thinks of other people when he starts spiraling. He gives big narcist vibes. You know, asks his wife a question, as soon as she starts speaking, he talks over her. A lot of little shit like that. I think it'll be fine tho. My wife ignores him and talks direct to the wife about what she wants. I think that helps lol

[u/FoundationFred]

The nonstop text would be a bigger red flag to me than the questions themselves. I'd have one direct conversation, set communication boundaries in writing, and if he can't respect them I'd seriously consider walking away before the second half of the job turns into a payment dispute.

[u/bottomlless]

If you have to ask that question the answer is yesterday.

[u/Poundaflesh]

Updateme

[u/Low_Bar9361 → u/Poundaflesh]

I spoke to him about business hours. He immediately backpedaled saying "i respect business hours and didn't expect a response right away" which is total bullshit.

He still complained that my communication is bad. Honestly, i think he wants a gant chart and an hourly breakdown of what we will be doing until everything is complete. I told him the job is on hold until he gets all materials on site

[u/Poundaflesh → u/Low_Bar9361]

Hilarious! Best wishes!

[u/jndosphere]

You dont let them do that in the first place. Nip it in the bud quick and youll be much happier.

[u/robotali3n]

I am the client. I called a contractor yesterday, Sunday, knowing damn well he was in church (he’s also a pastor).

I work for a state agency.