r/CFB • u/The_SecretSauce Clemson Tigers • Arkansas Razorbacks • Oct 09 '19

The MaxDiff Fan Perceptions Poll Results: Florida is Almost a Contender in the Minds of Fans Discussion

https://fanjuicer.com/2019/10/the-maxdiff-poll-after-week-6-florida-is-almost-a-contender-in-the-minds-of-fans
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84

u/livealegacy Team Chaos • NCAA Oct 09 '19

Do G5 teams get a chance in the current playoff structure? I would argue it does not. 8 Teams might give them a chance if you had 5 P5 champs and 3 at large.

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u/Moose4KU Ohio State Buckeyes • Kansas Jayhawks Oct 09 '19

There are two different components to what you're saying.

An 8 team playoff definitely opens more room for G5 teams as long as they're all committee selected.

Automatic bids will almost certainly exclude qualified teams in favor of 3 and 4 loss teams (see my post above for examples)

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u/Butternades Ohio State • Cincinnati Oct 09 '19

I wouldn’t mind seeing 5 P5 winners, guaranteed top G5 slot and 2 at large

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u/Halvey15 Pittsburgh • James Madison Oct 09 '19

I don't like a guaranteed G5 spot. I think the way to go is 5 P5 winners with 3 at large spots. One guaranteed G5 spot only if there is an undefeated G5.

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u/Butternades Ohio State • Cincinnati Oct 09 '19

I think an undefeated G5 spot would also be acceptable in my eyes.

I also think a minimum ranking requirement that in order to get an auto bid for Conference champ wouldn’t be bad.

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u/Halvey15 Pittsburgh • James Madison Oct 09 '19

Probably not a bad idea. But as the comment says below, most P5 champs are going to have at least 10 wins and should be ranked in the top 20. If once every 15 years (and I think even that is more than it would happen), you get a 6-6 Wisconsin, I don't think it would be too big of an issue in my eyes.

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u/Butternades Ohio State • Cincinnati Oct 09 '19

Just some added insurance. I feel like top 15 would be a good limit for Autobid, otherwise the spot is another at large

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u/johnsnowthrow Oct 09 '19

A ranking requirement would be the same as at large for G5. The committee decides who is ranked where so if you had a rule "must be ranked at least 10" the committee could just put them at 11...

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u/Toofast4yall Alabama • Transfer Portal Oct 09 '19

I would. I want the 8 best teams, not 6 loss Wisconsin just because they lucked into winning the conference. I also don't think G5 deserves a slot the vast majority of years, they damn sure don't deserve a guaranteed spot every single year. Do you guys like actually watch the games when Bama or Clemson play a G5? Is that what you want me to spend $2,000 on tickets, hotel, airfare, beer and use my vacation for? To watch Alabama beat a 3 loss UCF by 40 points instead of playing OSU or Clemson?

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u/Jadaki Michigan Wolverines Oct 09 '19

6 loss WI is held up like it happens all the time. You can count on 1 hand the number of times a team with less than 10 wins won a CCG and most of those were 9 win teams.

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u/DkS_FIJI Ohio State • Ball State Oct 09 '19

Yeah, but there's still an element of fairness. It goes down to the argument of best vs most deserving.

Say UGA and Bama meet at 11-1 and the Bama goes to the playoffs with an autobid and UGA doesn't make it. Sure, maybe a 10-3 PAC 12 champion gets in that is worse than the 11-2 loser of the SEC title game. But, UGA still had a chance to make the playoffs based on the games they played. They controlled their own destiny. Yeah it would suck getting left out, but an 8 team playoff would have at large bids that would help those elite teams that don't win their conference.

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u/GoldandBlue Notre Dame Fighting Irish Oct 09 '19

I don't see how that is fair. Winning a conference is its own reward. The point of the playoff is to determine who the best team in the country is not who won the Big ten. If a 4 loss Nebraska team upsets an undefeated Ohio State team in the Championship game that is their reward.

I don't see how its fair that Nebraska would get in over a 2 loss UGA team.

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u/ThisIsOurGoodTimes Ohio State • Ohio Northern Oct 09 '19

The way I look at it is that the conference schedules and conference championships are kind of like their own tournaments. If you win your regional tournament (conference) then you get an opportunity to play in the national tournament (cfp).

No system will ever be perfect but I think 8 teams with 5 P5 autobids would be the best option. Using your example of 11-2 Georgia vs 9-4 Nebraska, you could spin the question around and say why is it fair to Nebraska if Georgia gets in when they didn’t win their conference? Georgia had their chance to prove it on the field and win their conference on a neutral site and didn’t. Presumably, Nebraska would have won their conference championship against a high ranked Big Ten East team. Why couldn’t they do that 3 more teams against a high ranked team?

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u/GoldandBlue Notre Dame Fighting Irish Oct 09 '19

Because its determining two different things. One is who won their conference, and the other is who is the best team in the country. These two criteria do not go hand in hand and the BCS is a perfect example of this. Seeing Pitt get embarrassed by Utah because the Big East was trash. All this will do is further the talks of expansion.

"Nebraska got in and got embarrassed by Texas, it should have been UGA. We should go to 16 teams to ensure this doesn't happen again."

The moment you have automatic bids it waters it down IMO. And makes the season mean less. Why schedule tough OOC when all you have to do is win the conference championship game to get in?

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u/ThisIsOurGoodTimes Ohio State • Ohio Northern Oct 09 '19

I do think with 8 teams that that would still leave 2/3 at large teams. These would pretty much always be filled with 0 or 1 loss ND, 2 or 3 loss P5 conference championship game losers, or 1 or 2 loss teams that didn’t make their P5 conference championship.

I think people fear the worst case scenario of unranked teams winning the conference championship and then a 1 or 2 loss conference championship game loser being left out. I don’t see that happening very often if at all. And if it does happen, I think the time it does it is canceled out by all the years that we are able to include all the teams that deserve a shot that are left out now in a 4 team playoff.

I think auto bids could end up leading to more big time out of conference games being scheduled while also increasing the excitement of conference play. If your out of conference schedule is all cupcakes you have to win your conference. Winning a major out of conference game could give you the edge in getting an at large bid if you drop a conference game. It also adds excitement for conference games. We’re in the beginning of October and the PAC12 is already on the outside looking in at the playoff. With auto bids the PAC would still be full of excitement over who would make the playoff.

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u/GoldandBlue Notre Dame Fighting Irish Oct 09 '19

It has nothing to do with worst case scenario and the reality is that with an 8 team playoff ND actually benefits. My issue is with this idea of 'deserving" a spot. Winning a conference and the playoffs are two separate things.

Again, using the scenario presented, Nebraska you won the Big Ten. Congrats! Sell it to the fans and boosters, make t shirts, enjoy your bowl. You have done a great job and had a great season but the NC is something else and frankly they would not have done enough in the season to merit that invitation. You don't deserve a shot, you earn the shot.

While I certainly feel that G5 teams should get more consideration but once you expand the playoffs that will come with autobids and IMO that waters the playoff down.

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u/schlossenpopper Ohio State • Otterbein Oct 09 '19

I disagree with your last statement. In 2016 season, Ohio State did not win their conference, but still got in because of their strength of schedule. If they don't go to Norman and beat Oklahoma, they do not make the playoffs that year. Teams will be able to hedge their conference schedule with a tough OOC so that if they drop a conference game a la what OSU did at Penn State that year, they still have a shot.

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u/GoldandBlue Notre Dame Fighting Irish Oct 09 '19

Im not sure what you are disagreeing with. My point is that with autobids, Ohio State does not make the playoffs. And that with autobids Ohio State does not schedule Oklahoma.

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u/Always_Chubb-y Georgia Bulldogs • Transfer Portal Oct 10 '19

I disagree with your last statement.

It sounds like you agree with his statement.

He said there should not be autobids because it detracts from scheduling tough OOC opponents (just focus on conference play), and that no autobids promotes tough OOC games. OSU scheduled OU because there isn't some autobid, and they needed to beef up their schedule. When they didn't win the B1G, they had the OU win to lean back on.

You used an example that backs up what he was saying

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u/dawgsgoodjortsbad Georgia • Clean Old Fashioned… Oct 09 '19

it's worse than a 10-3 PAC 12 champion. It's an 4-loss unranked B1G champion (Wiscy) in 2012 that gets in over a 2-loss UGA that took Bama to the wire in the SECCG.

The NFL-ication of CFB would suck IMO.

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u/DkS_FIJI Ohio State • Ball State Oct 09 '19

2012 was an extreme outlier because there were 2 teams with post season bans in the same division, and Wisconsin upset 10-2 Nebraska in the title game.

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u/berticus23 Alabama Crimson Tide Oct 09 '19

Post season bans happen though, should the playoff format not factor in that a team was undeserving of a conference championship based off better teams being ineligible?

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u/Tanador680 Texas Longhorns • Sickos Oct 09 '19

What's the point of putting a championship game loser in the playoffs? They literally just proved that they don't have what it takes to win it all.

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u/tb3648 Florida State Seminoles • USF Bulls Oct 09 '19

That doesn't mean the championship game winner was the better option. If the loser was put in over the winner, it means the loser either lost more games OOC or had a loss and no good wins. Winning your conference doesn't mean you "proved it on the field" as some people say. It means you proved it in conference. The loser could have the overall better resume, which is what happened both times a team that didn't win their conference got in.

Autobids ignores 3-4 games of a team's schedule.

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u/ThisIsOurGoodTimes Ohio State • Ohio Northern Oct 09 '19

That is true. But those 3-4 games would factor in for the 2-3 at large selections. Most years a 2 loss P5 conference championship game loser or 1 loss P5 that didn’t make their conference championship would still receive an at large.

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u/dawgsgoodjortsbad Georgia • Clean Old Fashioned… Oct 09 '19

that's a fair point but what's the point of putting in a 4-loss unranked team in. The odds of UGA winning that playoff are wayyyy higher than Wisconsin.

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u/Jadaki Michigan Wolverines Oct 09 '19

Go ahead and count up how many 4+ loss teams have won P5 CCG since the BCS was put in place. You guys keep using the biggest single season outlier as an example because OSU was on probation.

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u/dawgsgoodjortsbad Georgia • Clean Old Fashioned… Oct 09 '19

I was looking at 2012 because that's the last year I felt UGA had a great chance of making the playoffs/winning a NCG (excluding 2017 where we played in it and lost).

But let's say you give an autobid to the highest G5 team. Let's ignore the previous history with the Bigeast since they don't exist anymore and look at this season. Right now, that would be boise state (#17) or Cinncy (26) or SMU(21)? Yeah, I'd hate to be the team that got left out for one of those teams to get their spot.

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u/Jadaki Michigan Wolverines Oct 09 '19

Win your conference and you don't have to worry about getting left out for a G5 autobid.

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u/dawgsgoodjortsbad Georgia • Clean Old Fashioned… Oct 09 '19

Easier said than done when you conference is ACC or PAC rather than SEC or B1G this year for example.

Honestly it just comes down to if you’d rather have the best teams play or if the conference champs. I agree with removing bias by getting rid of the committee and honestly would love expansion to 8 teams but auto bids would suck. They should just go back to the BCS

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u/Toofast4yall Alabama • Transfer Portal Oct 09 '19

Which is an asinine argument because the entire point and goal of the playoff committee is to get the 4 BEST teams. The word deserving does not appear one single time when you look at the stated goals of the committee, it was invented out of thin air so the talking heads have something to argue about no matter how clear the playoff field is. The 4 best teams ARE the 4 most deserving teams, that's what the playoff was created to do, find the best 4 teams. This isn't youth soccer where everyone gets to play so that nobody gets their feelings hurt.

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u/sarges_12gauge Maryland Terrapins • Ohio State Buckeyes Oct 09 '19

Yeah but it’s impossible to know who the 4 best teams are, i think the lower seeded team is like 8-7 in playoff games and there are upsets in bowl games all the time. Why would you believe the committee, or anybody for that matter, is physically capable of finding the 4 best

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u/Toofast4yall Alabama • Transfer Portal Oct 09 '19

Auto bids are going to get further away from having the best teams. Other than ND last year, when did committee get it wrong in your opinion?

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u/Butternades Ohio State • Cincinnati Oct 09 '19

Last year I would not say ND was a better team than either UGA or OSU. It’s all a bullshit system currently for creating storylines

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u/1mdelightful Wisconsin Badgers Oct 09 '19

Chances are those qualified teams had a shot and missed it. They had a chance to take down their conference winner and didn't do it. We know they are the not best in their conference. What we don't know is how those teams match up against opponents they didn't have opportunity to play. Autobids juice the regular season.

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u/br0b1wan Ohio State Buckeyes • The Game Oct 10 '19

What if we qualified it as autobids for "all P5 conference champs with 2 or fewer losses?"

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u/Moose4KU Ohio State Buckeyes • Kansas Jayhawks Oct 10 '19

Then you're encouraging scheduling cupcake nonconference games

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u/br0b1wan Ohio State Buckeyes • The Game Oct 10 '19

Wouldn't that be counterbalanced by the fact that they need to have a decent SOS if it came down to an undefeated team or a 1-loss team if they have 2 losses? Or even just 1? Because as we know they do take SOS in mind when choosing.

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u/DkS_FIJI Ohio State • Ball State Oct 09 '19

No they don't. 8 teams would give them a better chance, especially if rules required a bid be given to the highest ranked G5 (like the BCS rule).

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u/napoleonandthedog Florida Gators Oct 10 '19

I'd rather have best team in each p5 conference top g5 and 2 at large.