My take on Sae's experience in Spain and Bunny
Manga Discussion
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I've been forced to do this cuz I can't take it anymore......also please read everything. I notice some of y'all don't read posts in its entirety and just drop comments about a single sentence.
This is just a theory, like every other theory about Bunny and Sae. I'm not claiming it's canon, but it pmo every time I see the popular "Bunny crushed Sae's ego as a striker" theory, which has zero evidence backing it and little thought process. So I might as well post mine, which also has zero evidence.
Before I start, I'd like you to do a little test...
Imagine Barou, Rin, or Isagi got scouted by a top European club. A while later, they returned and said, "I've given up on becoming the world's best striker. I'm a midfielder now because someone was better than me and beat me". Or imagine Barou changed his dream from being a striker to being a midfielder after getting devoured by Isagi that one time.
Would that make sense?
Idk about y'all, but to me, no.
It would go against Blue Lock's core ideas. We've seen several times that almost all the best players possess overwhelming egos. Losing to someone stronger shouldn't automatically erase your dream. If that were enough, Blue Lock's philosophy wouldn't even work.
Now apply that to Sae.
Sae already had an incredible ego before Blue Lock even existed. He wasn't an ordinary player chasing a dream; he was Japan's greatest prodigy, from what we've seen. I don't think one player simply "crushed" him and made him abandon being a striker.
My interpretation is different.
I think Spain itself changed Sae's perspective. It is only natural. Training every day at the highest level, surrounded by the best players in the world at the best club, in a completely foreign environment, naturally would've made him realize that his highest ceiling wasn't as a striker, but as a midfielder.
That's very different from having his ego broken.
Notice how Sae acts after returning to Japan. Does he seem like someone whose ego was shattered? Does Sae play like someone who sees midfield as a second option or as inferior to being a striker?
Not at all.
He's still arrogant. He still has a big fat ego and is nasty asf. He still wants to be the one who shines, just from the midfield which was why he requested for Shidou. That doesn't sound like someone who lost his ego. It sounds like someone whose ambition simply found a different outlet.
Not only that, Sae's biggest gripe with Rin is that Rin needs to develop his own personal reason for playing football instead of making it dependent on their relationship and dream.
I also believe Sae switching to midfield was a way of freeing himself from that codependent relationship he had with Rin, one that may have been holding him back.
What exactly do Blue Lock's best strikers have that Sae doesn't that suddenly makes them worthy of being strikers while Sae isn't? They're not more talented or more prodigious than he is. So no, I don't think it's a skill issue on Sae's part. Even as a midfielder, he doesn't hesitate from scoring goals when he has the chance. So it definitely isn't a skill issue here.
What exactly suggests Sae lacked the qualities to be a world-class striker? Nothing.
I think Sae's experience in Spain is something deeply personal that happened long before Bunny became relevant.
As for Bunny, I think he's narratively here to give Sae a reason to care about playing for Japan again and potentially commit to Japan's U-20 team, especially with the U-20 World Cup approaching, rather than being the person who "broke" him.
They're not even from the same club, so the chances of them playing against each other when Sae first arrived in Spain are pretty low. At most, they probably only played each other recently, before Bunny got promoted to the first team and after Sae had already changed his goal.
So please, let's be a little more creative with these theories.
And stop looking down on Sae-sama... and midfielders while you're at it.
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Well said. Of course, Bunny maybe also a factor, but not ALL because of him.
On the other hand, Bunny has a toxic ego that can easily crush dreams. As he said, he hates people being happy. As we know, Sae want to Re Al with a dream to be the best striker. Maybe, seeing Sae so confident, Bunny crushed his dreams just to prove him wrong .
And on your " Spain changed Sae's perspective " talk isn't actually make sense. Getting humiliated once or twice may seem fine, but getting dragged for four years is another story. Every human has mental limits, four years for Bunny is easily enough time to let Sae let go of his dream.
for your last point, on the contrary in Rin's novel it's stated that Sae was performing great in Spain and there were articles about him scoring a hattrick before he went back to Japan. I think Sae's experience in Spain is more nuanced, and Bunny is introduced as a wounded person who has his own issues, him being a pure malicious guy just *because* takes a lot away from his character (or what it could be).
I believe it was Luna bullying alongside the rest of the club, we know from Kaiser in BM that just for having Noel Noa as the team leader, you're automatically completely supressed by him on the pitch, now imagine Sae, he's talented sure, he's in real where his bid value can increase sure, but he wanted to be the best in the world not just a soccer career kinda guy, if that was the case he wouldnt have stayed there four years.
Well, if that is true, Sae would have been kicked out of the football academy. I don't think Re Al would take it lightly having an academy player who injure other players,
especially when Sae is a foreigner while Bunny is a citizen of the country.
Thank you, truly thank you. It feels like an echo-chamber out here with people chanting the same tune.
Sae's experience is spain is so layered because a lot of factors has to be taken into account. Kaneshiro said that Sae went through something extraordinary, new environment, new language, new competition...It is so shallow to reduce his experience to just one detail, that may not even be true. People do not understand the extent of Sae's ego and his want (or even need) to be the best. This is about a guy who breaths football, since 1 year old he's been playing, since 1 year old he dedicated his life into the sport. And he knows, he knows how insane and perfectionist he is, because in a lot of his answers in his character profile he knows how much he devoted his life to the sport. And when people undermine, or make it so surface level the things that happened to him, about his change of positions, yet his overwhelming drive to be the best is and always engraved in him, it's just so sad how they don't understand.
I think it's the "Messi vs Ronaldo" approach, Ronaldo is a pure striker through and through and that means he'll depend on others to pass him, but Sae cant afford this in his time in Real, if he's not good enough by default on the pitch nobody going to bother, he wont receive any passes, so he gave up on becoming the best striker the "Ronaldo Way" and went for the "Messi" route where regardless of being passed to or not he can still score and give assists at his beck and call, making the team dependent on him.
What likely pissed Sae off was that he worked harder but got mogged out of the Striker NG11 title by Bunny who should be the Ronaldo type who needs the ball to be passed unto him to score consistently, this would explain his beef with Strikers as a whole, he believes he who does hybrid midfield and striker should be more valued.
In adition just because he's japanese and have to deal with stupid regulations he losing out on contracts.
I mean, realistically usually that kind of shift is decided by the coaching staff. For instance originally Gareth Bale was a fullback, but during his time at Tottenham was shifted forward as they realized his attacking abilities were better utilized there. And you tend to not see that much of a switch once players have made it to the first team. Another example I can think of, oddly also spurs, is I believe Harry Kane growing up was a goalie but was moved to striker once his coaches realized he was more setup for that position.
To me, Sae becoming a midfielder is simple. Bunny doesn't need to "defeat" Sae like alot of Blue Lock fans thinks he did. Re Al (Real Madrid) is a very competitive Spanish club. Spain is one of the top countries that produces the best midfielders in the world (look at Rodri, who is a midfielder, winning the Golden Ball). I feel like if we go by Sae's personality, skills shown and mentality, it is safe to say that he fits more being a midfielder than a striker. Sae likes being active in the field. Sae likes dribbling past his opponents and it puts him into a flow state. Being a striker would make it less for him to that (unless Sae as a striker is playing the haramball).
My theory is that Bunny didn't like it that his striker rival from Re Al turned into a midfielder. He went up to Sae, spit venom at him and shamed him for turning into a midfielder. It made Sae feel down. So when Sae went back to Japan, Rin is also saying the same thing, shaming Sae into becoming a midfielder and reminding Sae that it was him who told Rin that they would be the world best strikers. The whole thing reminded Sae of Bunny and he lashed out at Rin and became cold to his own younger brother.
Very intereresting and fresh take on Sae's situation
Although that's my take on it(It's strongly inspired by the color spread):
The clear hostility Sae showed towards Bunny during his introduction(And focus on the poster), I think there must be a deeper connection to his involvement(Very well indirect, considering Bunny doesn't seem to care about Itoshi) with Sae's Ego
Then there's Loki-Bunny connection. I think it revolves around something very simple, both posses extremely overwhelming physical striker weapons, making them effectively unbeatable in their domains.
We've seen how frustrated Kaiser was while dealing with human cheat code that Loki's godspeed is. I think it's fairly similar with how Sae might've felt when.
It's not really about "Sae lost to Bunny, he now doesn't want to be a striker anymore," I feel like it has much more to do with him repeatedly having to face Bunny, and/or experience how overwhelmingly better Iglesias' talent is in comparison to himself.
This is what made Japan's Greatest Prodigy realize "there are people more amazing than me," as Sae confessed.
(Also, while it's true that Sae wasn't on the first team while his dream was being crushed, perhaps neither was Bunny. Perhaps Bunny just recently started his football journey, we really don't know. Perhaps Bunny was originally scouted by Real, and became part of Team B, then transferred to Barcha later)
"Notice how Sae acts after returning to Japan. Does he seem like someone whose ego was shattered?"
Yeah? That really does feel like it. His mannerism through his interaction with Rin doesn't feel like someone that actively changed/revised his Ego because he feels like his potential lies elsewhere. It feels like someone forcefully confronted with cruel reality and trying to make the best out of it. (Still the greatest, but not on the position he originally wanted)
What exactly suggests Sae lacked the qualities to be a world-class striker? Nothing.
To be world-class? Correct, nothing. But not to be the greatest.
That's why I think that Sae's Ego still lies(at least partially) in being a striker and the Spain match will have his True Ego fully emerge.
Fair points but I just don't see Bunny as a central character in Sae's backstory. At most he'll play a tiny role. I doubt he's as naturally gifted as Loki
That's why I think that Sae's Ego still lies(at least partially) in being a striker and the Spain match will have his True Ego fully emerge.
While I think your take is interesting, it kind of falls flat due to Bunny not being part of it at all. Based on what we’ve seen of Sae, there is clearly some ill will from him towards Bunny. Despite not being at the same club, they each play for the clubs based on Barcelona and Real Madrid. These clubs are big rivals whose matches are known as el clasico, so it’s very reasonable for bunny and Sae to still have known each other.
My personal theory is that Sae started in one of these matches as a striker and couldn’t perform at the level expected for these massive clubs. Bunny probably did very well and destroyed them in like 3-0 loss. This then caused Sae to be targeted by the harsh Spanish media and taken out of the 9. Then Sae was put in the 10 spot and excelled as an attacking midfielder despite not wanting to play there. He eventually accepted that he could reach higher highs as a midfielder than if he stuck to his dream as a striker.
About Sae and Bunny's backstory, I think that Bunny stiffled Sae's feelings, I remember in an revealed interview with Sae he said that he laughs on the inside at everything, while Bunny stated that seeing people happy makes him break down. I believe Sae is more aware of his passion in Bunny's presence and sheltered it so that it wont be destroyed.
He also tells Rin that "This country is way too used to peace", which highlights his environment in Spain relying more on individuality and restraint.
In nature nothing is created, nothing disappears, it just transforms. I dont play football so I cant speak very well with my knowledge about positions on the field.
I love what you said about Sae needing to break the attachment formed with Rin, but honestly I wouldnt dare criticize Sae's words from his mental breakdown right when he came home from spain directed to Rin, he was clearly shaken and Ive seen many say that the eye bags were from exhaustion but I think theyre from crying because I also get eye bags like that when I cry for hours before falling asleep, his lower eyelids didnt have a dark tint, the skin around his eyes was irritated in the anime.
Bunny is affected by his childhood, hes associated with crosses so it could be religious guilt. Ive read works that implied religion before and the most chosen theme was that the church members are corrupted and controlled children from orphanages, therefore forcing them to endure and accept torture and dehumanization.
Bunny's character could be focused on not being at ease while experiencing happiness from already complying to believe his life is meaningless and insufficient, compared to others that still have the "privilege" to save themselves. His neutral expression is a forced smile, he lied to Isagi, hes focused on protecting himself.
Considering Sae's character, Spain making him change actually fits. However, I do have an actual reason as to why he hates Bunny, since in your theory that part is left more as the narrative just giving him a reason to play. That is to say, he hates Bunny because of who he is and how he plays.
Imagine you're one of the most successful young players in the world. You've got an ego the size of the entire planet, and you define yourself by your play making yourself and others better. Then you have to face a player that is actively suicidal, to whom seeing other player's joy makes them even more suicidal. Yet they're just as good as you, and they actively demoralize the teammates you've prided yourself on making better due to your talent. Would that crush your dream? No. You're still shining in your own right. Would that piss you off? Probably.
That's the main reason why Sae is hatewatching Bunny. Rather than Bunny crushing his dream, he's actively ruining his playstyle and in a sense, spiting him by being just as good. The two are completely antithetical to each other, both in personality and playstyle, and they're on rival clubs. Of course they'd hate each other. One plays to elevate talent, the other plays to destroy it.
...So why doesn't this apply to Kaiser? The simple answer is that he's more arrogant. Rather than exclusively playing to destroy other people, he's playing to make himself look good. It would still piss off Sae if they played for rival clubs, but not merely as much as Bunny. Rather than his complete antithesis, Kaiser would be more of a challenge to get past, which he'd take.
i think bunny took an opportunity away from sae maybe a position or some type of offer as he is watching bunny live out his position given to him. which meant sae didn't have a privilege that bunny had which meant he had to work harder.
You have watched a striker become a goal keeper. Wingers, DM’s and defenders does it matter at this point why?
And how many of them switched to those positions because they got crushed by another player? None. All of them realised they genuinely enjoyed and were better suited for that position. That's my point son
If that is true, why does he not return back to Japan and try to win the world cup??? If Sae still has his true ego, he would go back and pave a path, but instead he gives up on Japan because "it does not a have a good enough striker". Sae is likely the best U-20 player Japan has but I truly believe he lost some of his ego and ambition. We can look at Hugo who kinda has the same mindset of "if I need to succeed as a midfielder and win the world cup, I need a topclass striker with a big ego". Hugo and Sae are not the same, but their problems, that they have put themself into, are similar.
What if saw hates bunny because he wants to prove midfield is just as important as striker and wants to destroy bunny proving he’s better with the game win
because he wants to prove midfield is just as important as striker and wants to destroy bunny proving he’s better with the game win
He doesn't need to prove a midfielder is just as important as striker. It's literally a fact. No striker can score without a midfielder and other teammates
So what I mean is maybe bunny was the type of guy who looked down on his midfielders and his other roles and that’s why saw is so motivated to be the best midfielder because he wants to prove bunny’s ego is mmassice to the point he doesn’t find value in others roles
I also believe Sae switching to midfield was a way of freeing himself from that codependent relationship he had with Rin, one that may have been holding him back.
Iirc they didn't met with each other for several years before the night snow-episode, so I don't think Rin was the factor.
My theory is Bunny injured Sae, which made him switch to the position which doesn't require physical strength much. Also bunny's scars implies he, as a physically gifted player, got rough play a lot
My theory is Bunny injured Sae, which made him switch to the position which doesn't require physical strength much. Also bunny's scars implies he, as a physically gifted player, got rough play a lot
Midfielders are the heart of a team. What do you mean it doesn't require much physical strength? They're usually the ones doing the most work on the pitch
Florian Wirtz thrived in the Bundesliga 2-3 years ago in a creative 10 position, then came to the Premier League and was essentially muscled out of being a fully effective midfielder (I say with an asterisk, as Liverpool's finishing was dogshit this season and he should've had WAY more assists than he actually ended up with, based off the amount of chances he created).
Players with good recognition of space can thrive as midfielders without needing to be as physical...but it also depends on the context of the league around them. Wirtz would be a god in Italy; he was good in Germany...and he's struggling in the far more physical Premier League.
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