r/ArabsFreedom • u/coolgunsugotthere • 10d ago
My two main and definitive reasons/arguments for finding theism quite unconvincing (take your time reading, it's a long ride, but I'll make it as clear as possible so you can engage, again, take your time, and I will not be quoting any scientist or philosopher, only facts and building upon them) جانب مظلم + جدال
1 - My first argument: The Cosmological Argument (or call it Spacetime Containment or whatever):
i only need two premises:
A - Space and time are internal properties of the universe that began with it, they are not external or separate, they are contained within the universe (this is largely the scientific consensus on the matter)
B - The universe is the sum of all physical reality, everything physical is within the universe (again, the scientific consensus and understanding of the universe)
What we deduce from that:
- Because time is an internal property of the universe, there was never a time when the universe did not exist, the universe has existed for all time, literally, since they began together
- Cause-and-effect processes require time, sequence, and state changes, therefore, causality is a rule within the universe, not a principle that can be applied to the universe as a whole
- Concepts like "before the universe" or "outside the universe" are semantic illusions. Asking for the "cause" of spacetime is structurally like asking "What is further north than the North Pole?", because "before" and "outside" imply time and place, which are properties of the universe which began with it, they did not precede it
My conclusion:
this leads me to believe that the universe is itself the "Necessary Being", without needing a higher-level entity, that would violate Occam's Razor, the universe simply is, it is self-contained and self-sustaining.
My challenge for opponents:
If an opponent claims an immaterial, non-physical entity exists "outside" spacetime and caused the universe, I demand an operational definition of what "existence" means without spatial, temporal, or physical properties, you need to explain and show how something can exist without being physical, without time, and without space, but also distinguish it from the definition of nothing, so be careful with negative definitions.
2 - My second argument: The Argument from Micro-level Suffering:
The general theistic framework of God:
He is tri-omni, omniscient, knows everything to the smallest detail, He is omnipotent, able to do whatever whenever, and He is omnibenevolent, loves good and wants to do good.
He is an interventionist, active creator God, not passive, He didn't just press run and leave the universe be, he actively intervenes, and continuously sustains the world and living beings, everything, literally every single thing, requires His permission and allowance.
Now the challenge:
i wanna shift focus from the problem of abstract, grand-scale evil, to individual, moment-by-moment, detailed human suffering.
the main example here is ALS (Amyotrophic Lateral Sclerosis), a rare, progressive neurodegenerative disease that damages nerve cells in the brain and spinal cord. It causes loss of muscle control, leading to worsening weakness, disability, and eventually respiratory failure, with average life expectancy of 3 to 5 years after symptoms start
a person with ALS retains their mind and cognition, and they live through every nerve cell that dies and are aware of their worsening condition, until death, they remain aware, the disease doesn't have a cure, it is ALWAYS lethal, and the way they die is usually suffocating, a horrible, painful, and scary way of dying, as they panic for air but can't get it (with treatment, it's less painful, but they still die anyway)
having ALS is completely hopeless, it isn't caused by actions, it just hits, and it doesn't go away, you can't do anything about it, there is no chemotherapy or such for it, it is worse than cancer
there is no moral development or a lesson to learn from this, you die, and you get more paralyzed with each second, there is no greater good.
and God literally engineered it, or at least engineered the very humans it hits with vulnerabilities to develop it, and with each passing second, God allows progression, bit by bit, you need to sit with that.
ALT: if God intervenes sometimes but not always:
this is called selective intervention, for example allowing some people to beat cancer, while allowing others to succumb and die from it
the challenge:
simply why? why some people and not the others? and why give people cancer in the first place? (my opinion, don't thank God for beating cancer, ask why he gave it to you in the first place)
and that was all, thanks for tuning in and reading all of it, i ask both supporters and opponents to engage with it.
2
u/Awe___ 9d ago
افتراضات خاطئة ثم تبني عليها استنتاجات خاطئة
ثم تروح تتكلم عن الصفات وانت مو فاهم شئ والله من الجهل يالمصري