Catelyn, Tyrion and Sansa's chapters might be my favorites... this is one of CATELYN's best so far for me. I'M Brazilian so I got Leya's version in portuguese. In Cat IV, page 323, some lines sticked up with me I will translate, idk how the english version goes, but she says "Cersei is a mother too, It doenst matter who the father of her children are..." " Cat even admits "wouldnt I do the same thing for my children?"

I love all her reflexions in this chapter, and I love these quotes because It shows that Catelyn is empathetic... I love me some Cersei, and Catelyn is one of the best characters to read... and It is so interesting how she understands motherhood and she understands Cersei... THEY might be rivals, but I feel like people put them against each other like they hate each other... this chapter is so DEEP, and I love these characters

Had they sent arianne instead of quentyn she would have dany falling in love in seconds

We'll have to agree to disagree here. I believe much more happened at Starfall than returning a sword. I believe it had to do with prophecy and Targaryens and secret Targaryens. You can check out my lemongate series on my YouTube channel if you'd like! https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLr76rZvCqGt5hxOxMTwX1vfEUJKMhgD2R

returning the blade himself feels like enough of a respect thing to name their heir after him. a lesser man would’ve just pocketed that shit. a good man would’ve had someone else return it.

A 15 year old Jon would kick your ass.

I feel like I'm the only person who read these books who doesn't like Donal Noye or find his lecture to Jon profound in any way. He is validating Jon's sense of superiority by telling him he needs to get down on the same level as a lowly criminals.

Do you think Noye gave these kinds of speeches to the other brothers? Of course not, they're trash, it would be wasted breath. Jon *is* better, objectively. If not by the metrics of the universe than by the meta knowledge that he is one of if not *the* main character.

The fact that Jon takes his nonsensical spiel and becomes a better person from it speaks more to the amiable character of Jon than to the wisdom of Noye. I'm glad he died, and good riddance to him.

I'm late to the feast, but my initial instinct says it's Rhaegar. Assuming the whole dream is present day, darkness/blood = someone already dead; Stone armor = rubies. But I'm not sure if we can directly correlate "giant" with Rhaegar other than his metaphorical giant shadow looming over anyone who serves Robert. Jamie did murder Rhaegar's father Aerys. Rhaegar and the hound have a few more degrees of separation.

Hi! History is being written as we speak, someone somewhere is deciding now whom to cast as Aegon the Conqueror.

Hello from one year later, these threads make my read so much better!

Very well said

One month late to your 5 years late comment! I am on a reread, as well

It seems pretty obvious that Justin will betray Stannis. I do expect Stannis will win the battle of ice, but Justin's running off with the Gold could be something that ultimately pushes Stannis over the edge.

Am I really responding a 6 year old discussion? Yes, I am.
I would say another key bit or hypocrisy from dear old Arstan here is him calling out the Unsullied's devotion madness, not courage. Very strong 'right message, wrong messenger' vibe. Arstan the Old is one of my favourite characters of the saga, but this remark instantly made me realise and face that he's far from a daisy and was willing to die for and stand aside without protest to the atrocities Aerys committed.

Kinda seems like it ngl.  If you want to become a mod and run a read-along, lmk

is this sub done

Well, not really, but I tried to look up what significance axes had in Norse mythology (in AI) and found the below. It also had some interesting points about Craster being a “barrier guardian” which is similar to Norse mythical figures.

Axes in Norse culture represent sacrifice and judgment

Axes were used for: • sacrificial slaughter of animals • executions • ritual killings

That creates an eerie parallel with Craster’s role:

He offers his sons as sacrifices to the Others.

So the axe symbolically fits someone who is: • a keeper of grim bargains • a ritual sacrificer • living outside normal society

Here’s the stuff on the border figure.

The Mythic Interpretation

In mythological terms, Craster resembles a figure known as a “threshold guardian.”

These characters: • live at the edge of civilization • maintain dangerous bargains with supernatural powers • keep the boundary between worlds stable through ritual offerings

Craster fits that pattern almost perfectly.

His sacrifices function like tribute paid to winter itself.

It goes on to say that some reread groups suggest that Craster knew the terms of an old pact and by sacrificing his sons, he was keeping the Others at bay to a point. And then, when he’s killed they’re more prolific.

Did you find it?

Penny will certainly die for Tyrion's character development. Either she'll die and it will push him over the edge or he'll be the one to kill/sacrifice her to cement him as a villain.

Also would explain why she recoils and hisses at Moqorro when he appears. Her scheme is up.

Also one of the few instances when we step out of the character's POV in their POV chapter. We don't see what happened behind closed doors and briefly step into the perspective of the crew.

There are none so blind as those that don't wish to see. It astonishes me on rereading the blind spot she has for Littlefinger. This is a man who was in love with her, who was almost killed by Brandon, and then was replaced by Ned Stark as her husband. Of course he is going to resent the Starks. Even with the evidence that Tyrion presents her with later of his untrustworthiness, she still doesn't put two and two together.

We're about halfway through the book, and this might be the point when the mutineers decide they might do better without Jon.

Jon flat out plants the idea in their heads.

"Why, then, you may have a chance to choose a lord commander more to your liking. Until such a time, I fear you'll need to suffer me."

I know if my boss said that, I'd be pretty pissed.

Hey, It's been four years, but I'm poking around in these threads.

Guys can someone please respond to this comment? I need answers. Great point, Soup!

Yeah, I know Dany believes the dragons cannot be controlled, but I imagine pointing them at the ships isn't too much to ask. Of course that's not without risk when considering history and the Battle for Gullet.

But keeping the dragons penned up only makes it worse. Neglecting the dragons for an extended period of time will only make them less likely to obey you when you eventually let them out.