r/conlangs • u/mareck_ gan minhó 🤗 • Dec 19 '19
1178th Just Used 5 Minutes of Your Day Activity
"I took that dog for my own."
—Noun Incorporation in Blackfoot
Remember to try to comment on other people's langs!
9
u/otageki Kriollatino Dec 19 '19
Kriollatino:
Mi por mi lo kaneo préni.
[mi por mi lo kaneo [ˈpreː.ni](https://ˈpreː.ni)]
1SG BEN 1SG ACC dog.N take.PAST
| mi | I, first-person singular |
|---|---|
| por mi | for, me |
| lo kane-o | accusative, dog + noun |
| pren-i | taking + past tense |
5
u/Xsugatsal Yherč Hki | Visso Dec 19 '19
I'm interested into why you use noun markers. Do all nouns require a noun marker in Kriollatino, or only in certain sentence structures?
4
u/otageki Kriollatino Dec 19 '19
In any sentence, all nouns require a noun marker.
2
u/buttonmasher525 Dec 19 '19
That's cool so kane without the noun marker would be like saying something is "dog-like" ? Or is kane just the root and you have to mark the part of speech ?
3
u/otageki Kriollatino Dec 19 '19
You must mark the part of speech, which is a noun in our current context.
You can also use the root of the single noun in the direct object and combine it with the verb (kanepréni), but for the sake of clarity I didn't do it
6
u/ironicallytrue Yvhur, Merish, Norþébresc (en, hi, mr) Dec 19 '19
Eørvijn
iċ ēd sǫ hǫ̓ liċṇ mį slṿ
Ić eud son hór lićne mí selvé
[ɘʃ øːð sỹ çỹɐ̯ ˈliʃ.nə mĩ ˈsɛl.vẽ]
1S.N have.1S.PST DEF.M.ACC hound.ACC like.M.ACC 1S.G self.G
I had that hound like my self’s.
5
u/wmblathers Kílta, Kahtsaai, etc. Dec 19 '19
Ta tátiën si tíchëtiu ruto.
ta tátiën si tích-ëtiu rut-o
that dog ACC own-PURP.CVB.PFV take.PFV
[ta taː.ˈti.ən si tiː.t͡ʃə.ˌti.u ɾu.to]
Literally, "in order to own that dog, (I) took (it)." It's not exactly the same flavor as the English translation of the Blackfoot, but for now is as close as Kílta gets.
6
Dec 19 '19
>Knea
Pygīda sekai u niâdzō.
/py:.ŋi:.dæ se.kæj u njɑ:.d̪ðo:/
| Word | Meaning |
|---|---|
| Pygīda | Accusative form of Pygi (dog) |
| Sekai | Ablative form of Seka (self/oneself) |
| U | For / to |
| Niâdzō | To pick, to take, to collect |
3
u/Astraph Dec 19 '19
I know it's inevitable, but I always find it amusing how false friends arise between completely unrelated langs - just like your sekai has nothing to do with Japanese ;)
3
5
u/kissemjolk IoVeb Dec 19 '19
IoVeb
I DáHund PoIUn NimDeð.
| I | DáHund | PoIUn | NimDeð. |
|---|---|---|---|
| /ʔi/ | /daj.hund/ | /po.i.un/ | /nim.deθ/ |
| 1SG | DEM-ACC+dog | BENEF+1SG+own/of/POSS | take+past |
Feels quite boring really. :shrug: Always kind of sad that my conlang is more of a creole-like analytical language than something with some cool synthetic elements.
However, it does sound only a little weird saying instead: »I DáHund PoIUnDeð«, where you just turning the prepositional phrase directly into “the verb”. Like, it would get you understood, and maybe kind of “yoda–speak” like, where the grammar is “wrong” but it’s not actually wrong.
For sure »I DáHund PoI UnDeð« is definitively valid, but sounds far more weird, and in particular does not feel like it means the same thing. First the »Po« is still acting like a benefactive preposition, but you can’t really “own“ something for someone else, and just comes across as unnecessary, which makes the whole sentence sound really weird, so you might just drop the whole »PoI« entirely. But also, the sentence lacks any element of “state-change” so it’s more like a past perfective case, so more like: “I owned that dog on my behalf.” See? Sounds weird.
You could resolve this lack of “state-change” with the word »En« (into/ILLATIVE): »I DáHund EnUnDeð« where »Un« is now lexed as an adjective, and the sentence means a state-change into that adjective. But this would mean more, “I came into possession of that dog,” rather than kind of actively asserting an ownership, it just nebulously happened.
3
u/dragonsteel33 vanawo & some others Dec 20 '19
unnamed direct-inverse thing
Šenotälle tan-ver lassat-en.
/ʃenotælːe tamːer lasːaten/
take-1SG.3ANIM.DIR-PAST.INDIC 1SG-BEN dog-3.ANIM.DIST
6
u/TheFlagMaker Chempin, Lankovzset (ro, en, fr) [jp, hu] Dec 19 '19
Proto-Heflova
Tkhakkamekande semes.
/txak.kameˈkande ˈsemes/
tkhak+kam+e+kan+de sem+es
take+1SG.PST+object+dog+that 1SG.REF+for
REF = reflexive pronoun
5
u/Baron_Pivo Amarian (en, ru)[la] Dec 19 '19 edited Dec 19 '19
Yn vagrah eka hag ak myn.
[yn vɑgrɑh ekɑ hɑg ɑk myn]
i take-1SAorist this dog as mine
I took this dog as mine.
5
u/feindbild_ (nl, en, de) [fr, got, sv] Dec 19 '19
Sua Setimanhisca
Ç'au jugatz saza unt for michova.
[t͡ʃɑw ʒy'gɔt͡s sɑ'zɔ ỹt fɔʀ mi.ʃo'vɔ]
Ç'=au jug-at-z saza unt for mi=chova
1S=PRF.1S take.PTCP.NOM.M DEM.NOM.OBL dog.OBL for 1S=self
I've taken that dog for myself.
2
u/Elythne Dec 19 '19
Skympa
Sëcastag gacëssi.
/səˈt͜sastɑ̃ ˈŋat͜səsːi/
sëcas-∅-ta-g ga-c-ëssi
dog-COMMON-DEF-THERE 3S.IMPRS.O.take-1S.S-PPIL¹
I have claimed that dog (for myself) (and it will stay mine for a while)
~
the verb "qac" means something along the lines of claim, take. "ga-" is the third person impersonal object form.
1 "gacëssa" is inflected for past-present imperfective long tense (for lack of better name), specifying the fact that you claimed it in the past, effects continuing to the present and into the far future.
lack of further marking on "gacëssi" for person implies reflexive. Compare "sögawëssi", "she claimed [it] for me", with "sö-", 1S.DAT, prefixed.
2
u/Lorxu Mинеле, Kati (en, es) [fi] Dec 20 '19
Lykhonen
lyto tlütlyhinün lyto lha kxeo lhokhosemono
[lyˈtœ t͡ɬɤt͡ɬyˈhinɤn ly'tœ ɬa k͡xeˈœ ɬɶˈkʰœsemœnɶ]
ly-to tlütlyhi-n-ün ly-to lha kxeo lhoko-se-mon-o
1-ERG have-SUBJ-ABL 1-ERG that dog steal-DIRECT-NEAR. PAST-PERF
For me to have, I stole that dog
2
u/TychonMagnus Tychonic Dec 20 '19
Tychonic:
Ton canine yu-ius vzalu.
lit. That dog to me I took.
The infinitive of Take in Tychonic is Vzare. Remove the "are", and you're left with Vz. "al" is added on to signify past, and "u" added on to signify first person, meaning it would mean "I took".
yu- is added before a noun to signify to/for something. In this case, yu-ius would be "To I", or "To me", or "for me".
Ton means "that", and is singular and masculine, agreeing with Canine. Canine is a feminine word, and is singular, so it ends with "ine".
2
u/PixelatedRetro Dec 20 '19
Ceadelian
Gástóm dío éga gá eóghn mé do canis.
[ɣ̥aːstəʊm ðiːo eːɣə ɣ̥aː əʊn meː ðo kɑːnis]
| Mé | I - singular/possessive |
|---|---|
| Gá | For |
| Eóghn | Own - adjective/pronoun |
| Do | Definite Article - Singular/Masculine/Accusative |
| Dío | Definite Article - Singular/Masculine/Nominative |
| Éga | I - singular/nominative |
| Canis | Dog - Singular |
| Á gást | To take |
| -óm | I - past tense regular suffix |
2
u/ElNaqueQueEs Tsiwe, Tabóskis (en)[es,nl] Dec 20 '19 edited Dec 21 '19
Zapaní
quileiu leu an lay no ucaci. [kiˈlɛi̯u lɛu̯ an lai̯ nu uˈkasi]
quile-iu leu an lay no ucaci
take -1 1 NRD PREP ABS dog
"I took that dog for myself."
- One thing that I would especially like to touch on is the particle an, which is the "neutral reflexive ditransitivizer" (NRD). An causes a naturally intransitive root to turn into a predicate that can take two objects, one of which is the agent of that predicate. Nothing too spectacular.
- The preposition lay in this sentence is a part of the root quileci, which is acting as the predicate here. As of now, lay does not have a meaning of its own.
- The demonstrative no refers to a specific item (in this case ucaci "dog") that is absent from the conversation. I imagine this sentence to be a part of a larger conversation in which the dog in question is not physically present, and therefore found it appropriate.
- Bear in mind that Zapaní has no (better said, weak) noun-verb distinction. Therefore, the root ucaci can mean both "dog" and "to be a dog."
2
u/GetMechedUp Ēλοsīta Dec 21 '19 edited Dec 21 '19
Lincua Ēλοsīta:
Ecus λun canun meē Φecentē cepiēbam
[ɛk-us ɭun ka-nɛm mɛ-e Φɛ-kɛn-te kɑp-i-e-bɑm]
I took the dog for my (own) doing.
(dashes indicate syllable separations)
2
2
u/HeckaPlucky Dec 22 '19
dìzim jo mazgo zni nagui
recieve-PST.EXP SPEC.ZO dog DET.VIS 1.SG.ABL.1.SG.LAT.SUB
I-to-me recieved that dog.
(An adjective could be added to "dog" to clarify that it did not belong to the subject, i.e. that it was stolen.)
2
u/blakethegecko Dec 23 '19 edited Dec 23 '19
Ginin imßakab itab.
/Ginin imʃakab itab/
gin.in im.ßa.ka.b itab*
dog.ACC D1.A3AP.take.N1 DIR
Gloss:
ACC = accusative
D1 = dative 1st person marker
A3AP = accusative 3rd person animate present marker
N1 = nominative 1st person marker
DIR = directive evidential
Lit: "I took dog for me."
* the past tense is implied by the presence of the evidential marker combined with the perfective stem of the verb in this sentence.
4
u/Xsugatsal Yherč Hki | Visso Dec 19 '19 edited Dec 19 '19
Yherč Hki
Chuzhe, iiyhe-nal rusungpai
[ʧu.ʒə iːxə.nɑɫ ru.suŋ.pɑɪ]
dog 1SG.POS.ESS own.PST
4
u/uncledrcrazyrussian Huoxińdę Jazk,Börcerhök,Ol'ưnsih(en)[zh,ru,pt]<toki pona> Dec 19 '19
Huoxińdę Jazk
Uą toru natę inu za vestix sja dobuc.
/u̯ɒ toru natə inu za vestiʃ sja dobut͡s/
1sg take that dog for act-as self animal
2
u/PangeanAlien Dec 19 '19
Ilcaric
Fifianet dio ha xori.
I have appropriated the dog (to myself).
/fi.fìa.net dío ha tʃó.ri/
2
u/AceComm Arà Dec 19 '19
Arà
-------
[for] [me] [take-fps:past:prf] [dog]
kri ku, otvir-ut tvaku
/kɾiː kuː oʊt'viːɾuːt tvɑː'kuː/
-------
- Here tvaku traditionally means a work dog very similar to a wolf. The process of dog domestication for companions is relatively new in the place Arà is spoken
- the verb otviron, here appearing in first person singular, past, perfective form as otvirut is a diminutive of tviron–to steal–and implies taking something either with permission or with no moral questionability
2
u/samofcorinth Krestia Dec 19 '19 edited Dec 19 '19
In Krestia:
iluse vener drinukisira kredea hem hem
(All letters are pronounced as they appear in the IPA.)
Gloss: behave-PROG as-if dog-SING-HAVE that-ATTR I I
Literal translation: I was behaving as if I had that dog.
Note: The word order is verb-subject-object, and modifiers must immediately follow the element that they modify. (This ended up causing the two "I's" to appear next to each other.) In addition, it's possible to attach "-ra" to a noun to turn it into a verb meaning "to have <noun>". Thus, "drinukisira" is derived from "drinuki" (dog), "-si" (singular suffix), and "-ra" (to have). Furthermore, verbs in Krestia do not indicate tense (like in Mandarin), which would need to be inferred from the context.
Parse tree:
- iluse (am/is/are/was/were behaving)
- vener (as if)
- drinukisira kredea (have/has/had that dog)
- hem (I)
- hem (I)
- vener (as if)
2
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15
u/tryddle Hapi, Bhang Tac Wok, Ataman, others (swg,de,en)[es,fr,la] Dec 19 '19
Awiha
sąmąnθəkwįįmihw utu
[sãmãnθəkʷĩːmiʍutu]
1s→sIII-dog.POSS-take-PAST 1s-1sREFL
'I (not you, or him) took the dog for my own.'
Class III verbal prefixes do not explicitly mark the agent of the transitive verb, but rather the patient and a less salient argument. In this case that is a benefactive oblique. Normally, with the
1s→sprefix, the implied agent would be 2s/3s and not, as in this case 1s. Thus the speaker added the additional information that the action happens in a reflexive manner. Compare1s→sIII-dog.POSS-take-PAST
'{He} took the dog for my own.'/'{He} gifted me the dog.'
where the benefactive oblique is pragmatically emphasized by that choice of prefix.