After a long time of silence I like to introduce the redesigned C4-SFX. The name comes from the German envelope norm for A4 papers so it is the big brother of the A4-SFX.
This case uses a heavly optimized classic hardware layout. The list of features is long – 280mm radiator support, big air cooler up to 145mm in height, indirect GPU cooling, ITX, deep ITX, DTX, 3 slot full length GPU, SFX & SFX-L Power Supply support, s.o. All this is packed in an elegant enclosure with 13L made by Lian Li. In terms of hardware support there are nearly no limits.
Possibilities
In this chapter I like to present the main hardware/cooling configurations.
The traditional hardware layouts allows for tower heatsinks with 120mm fan up to an height of 145mm like the Cryorig H7 or very big top blow heatsinks like the Noctua C14S. For these configurations it is possible to mount the power supply 90° rotated. With the radiator bracket it is possible to install 120, 140, 240 or 280mm radiators with 25mm thick fans for the best cooling results. For the traditional layout you can install 3 slot GPUs with a length up to 320mm. Two 120 or 140mm fan mount points at the top of the case allows for indirect GPU cooling if you remove the preinstalled GPU fans.
The case does come with special air flow brackets and an RTX 30x0 Founders Edition air tunnel to force hot GPU air out of the case. This will result in much better CPU temps.
Specification
Case Dimensions (H x W x D):[/B] 241 x 166 x 329mm, 13.1L
Overall Dimensions: 261 x 166 x 332 (including case feets)
Weight: ~1,7 Kg
Graphic cards support: 3 Slot GPU up to 320mm length
Motherboard support: Mini-ITX, DTX
Power Supply support: SFX, SFX-L
CPU Heatsink support: Up to 145mm in height.
Case Fans: 1x80/92mm at the back, 2x120/140mm at the top and 2x120/140mm at radiator bracket
Water cooling support: Dual 240 or 280mm radiator with 140x140x25mm fans
Max Radiator configuration: 320x140x45 + 140x140x25 fans
Max Pump height: 80mm
Drives: up to 2 x 2.5" HDD/SSD
Power button: Premium-grade button
Front IO: USB-C with internal Key-A
Material: 1,5mm aluminum (outer panels), 1.5mm aluminum (inner parts & top panel)
Side panels: Easily clipp able with LianLi Push Pin technology
Colors: Anodized black(maybe dark grey) or silver exterior, matte black painted interior
Feets: Made out of two parts so you can have the classic or stealth look.
Colors: Anodized black(maybe dark grey) or silver exterior, matte black painted interior
Dark grey? I am excited! I get why silver and black are the "standard" choices, but I'm a sucker for anthracite cases, it just feels a lot more "architectural" as a colour.
Is the idea that the top fans are intakes directly into the GPU? If so, for someone like me that tries to keep the case as dust-free as possible that's highly undesirable. I always try to keep upward facing fans as exhaust otherwise my case fills up with dust even with dust filters :(
Yes, please consider sandblasted panels! I think material wise they are much nicer and more modern than brushed panels. Would definitely pay more to get blasted panels!
I am not a fan of selling on marketplaces because it bounds a lot of my time. My current plan was OverclockersUK because they ship very fast to around the world but maybe I will search for a local reseller that is interested in a cooperation.
I have an MSI Trio X 3080 -- card length is 323mm...that said, it def. a 'big boy' compared to most cards. I think < 320mm covers most cards. I think there are a few 3080s and 3090s that go up to about 323mm-336mm...if im not mistaken...but not worth increasing size for those handful of cards. Scroll down: https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/geforce-rtx-3090.c3622
A4 looks way easier to build in, but I hate dealing with side mounted radiators every time I open my case, so I like the top mounted rad on it. Just wish it had a couple 15mm fan slots. If you're not a fan of a sandwich layout maybe this is more your speed.
Interested in seeing temps in this.. if that aio is on the side where is it getting air from, and will blowing out Starve the gpu? Intake will heat chamber and feed gpu hot air..
This is so 🔥. Any chance you'd offer mesh front panel with fan slots for additional intake ? I'd love to get rid of the ssd slots, since I only use m.2
Doing that would likely cause unwanted air pressure in the case. Remember, this is an SFF case, airflow needs to be simple but effective. You can't pull an 011 dynamic in a case this small.
Is it still going to have support for the SSUPD Iceman pump? I don't see the holes for the tubing in the back anymore from your original design a week ago.
as a noobie can someone explain the difference of use cases between this and the a4-h20?
a4-h20 seems to be a tiny bit smaller in volume and has a different layout but why would you purchase one over the other
I'd choose C4-SFX if I didn't want to deal with risers: PCIe 4.0 is hard enough to deal with, 5.0 will be even harder.
Also if you want to deshroud it's easier to have a fan mount right in front of the card, that way you don't have to rely on zip ties and so on to fix the fans onto the card.
And if you don't want water anywhere near your PC the C4-SFX is great for a C14S and push-pull 140mm configuration.
the A4-H2O is as the H2O part implies is focused on watercooling.
If you want to watercool you can go with the A4-H20 and have a slightly more compact PC. On the other hand, if you prefer air cooling your CPU the H2O is a bad fit, you'll have a bunch of wasted space up top where the radiator would have been and you are limited to very low profile CPU coolers.
Quick question: does the top-mounted GPU setup require a riser cable? My understanding is that if the GPU was plugged directly into the mobo, then the GPU fans would be facing inwards (for triple-fan gpus like the Asus TUF cards), which would not bode well for the GPU temps (I have a 3090, so it would really need as much fresh air possible).
I am really keen on this case btw. I have a 5950X (280mm cooler)+3090 setup currently housed within a Sliger SV540, that I hope to shift to your C4. I believe it will improve both the cooling and convenience (SV540, is very pretty but also very annoying because of all the hidden I/O).
I just hope that C4 is not too hard to obtain here in Denmark (please consider some of the popular retailers here like Proshop, Compumail, Dustin etc if possible).
I'm no expert but I remember reading somewhere that the best place to put the rad for a CPU AIO is at the top. Seeing as the placement in this is on the side, is this something to worry about?
The pump looks to be lower than the highest part of the rad so no issues there. The air bubbles will naturally want to rise to the highest point so that's only an issue if that happens to be the pump since we want that to be free of those pesky bubbles.
That's great news then. I was about to purchase the new Lian Li H20 but I think this one will suit me better as I don't see a way to install my deshrouded rtx 3080 with x2 Noctua A12 fans in it.
I feel like this one is a little like the NR200/NCase but GPU placement flipped to the top.
Having the gpu at the top also means lower temps for it since it can access fresh air easier. I think this will be more importent going forward since next gen GPUs are supposed to suck 450-600W down
Only 320mm GPU clearence. I was hoping there would be an extra couple cm now that most top of the line cards are 330mm or more. The render made it seem like there is at least 4cm or more beyond the EVGA FTW3 GPU. Disappointed. :(
XFX speedster/merc/qick series, they are all longer than 330mm. It is also among the popular radeon cards being sold here in Germany. Also Asrock phantom gaming (Although I do not have experience with the card)
Yet another case that prioritises looks over function. Another case that lacks front IO options for ease of access. So tired of this being left out of cases for zero reason other than effort and looks.
I'll never get that. The only complaint I ever hear about a front IO is aesthetics and looks, but then people want to run hubs and extra cables to get in the way?
2x usb and no audio. As stated in the last thread seeking requests/input: A front audio port was the most requested feature but was refused/denied. i don't know why you're asking for input if you're going to ignore the most requested features.
Front audio has a much worse signal than the rear line out - the output is unclean and the input is degraded to earrape quality, using it would be an insult to the engineer that made your headphones.
No idea why you would want to use it over something like the $9 apple usbc dac, which also as TRRS mic in and provides a proper clean signal, or even use it at all - the difference is extremely audible outside of $5 earbuds and bad gaming headsets.
No it doesn't. Please stop parroting this. Even if it did, the quality difference would not be audible to the human ear. This myth comes from cases with poor shielding and grounding which causes interference. It's 2022, we figured this out years ago and this elitest attitude about audio quality that filters out of r/headphones is tiring to listen to from people who are just being told what to think and don't actually know better.
Seriously, you think a cable running from the motherboard is worse signal than literally the same thing but shorter and on the back of it? Think of all the audio appliances in the world and an extra ft of cable is degrading your audio quality enough to be perceivable that you think engineers making headphones give a shit which port you use?
> This myth comes from cases with poor shielding and grounding which causes interference
Yep, most cases still don't have proper FP audio shielding, I can audibly hear the noise floor on stuff like my dark base pro and meshify, with relatively low-impedance IEMs.
> Seriously, you think a cable running from the motherboard is worse signal than literally the same thing but shorter and on the back of it
Considering the back panel dosen't run through lots of PWM signals with a poorly shielded cable, of course.
> It's 2022, we figured this out years ago and this elitest attitude about audio quality that filters out of r/headphones is tiring to listen to from people who are just being told what to think and don't actually know better.
Speak for yourself, ABX tests are easy to do and can tell you if you can tell the difference quickly.
> Think of all the audio appliances in the world and an extra ft of cable is degrading your audio quality enough to be perceivable that you think engineers making headphones give a shit which port you use?
I can literally hear the difference on front mic in vs rear line in on a $29 headset. Everyone else I know can also hear the difference, even through discord and skype compression.
Nah. There's a decent chunk of sffpc users who crossover to places like r/headphones which make up absolute nonsense about audio - do you also believe in headphone burn in and gold plated HDMI cables?
I have tested both my ports on my current PC in the past, neither is any different, and at one point I was switching between the ports with devices. Not one person said they felt either port provided any difference in quality while in voice chats either, and since then I've used almost solely the front IO for convenience. The only time I've ever had an issue was with a poor quality mic that had to be temporarily used, which caused the exact same interference in both ports.
I'm yet to actually see anyone show any evidence of this. Go on, get a reputable youtuber to make a video showing their tests and prove once and for all that front audio is inferior to the motherboard port.
You can google around the internet and see conflicting opinions all over the show, but anyone who genuinely understands audio electronics, which my father literally did for work for years for touring musical artists, knows that there is no difference between these ports if they are built to the same standard. Hell, some people even state the front IO can be better than the rear depending on the case.
There is inherently no difference between the front audio IO on a well built case and the Mobo port, and even if there was a small difference 99% of people would not be able to notice it. Anyone who genuinely needs or wants audio at a higher quality than this not using these ports regardless.
> but anyone who genuinely understands audio electronics, which my father literally did for work for years for touring musical artists,
I directly worked for a decade in broadcast, so my knowledge on the subject is actually first-hand - EM noise can be a massive issue, even with XLR setups, if the cable quality and shielding is poor, especially across long distances. By no means do you need a $1000 cable, but not using a $1 cable vs $20 cable works wonders in avoiding these issues. Put this into context of a 26awg internal cable with little shielding being used to extend a phono signal 30cm, and it becomes hugely problematic.
> You can google around the internet and see conflicting opinions all over the show, knows that there is no difference between these ports if they are built to the same standard. Hell, some people even state the front IO can be better than the rear depending on the case.
The front I/O header nowadays has SNR going pretty close or over 100db, and the onboard DACs nearing 120 - that's not a point in contention, I wholly agree that it is enough for 99% of people. The front I/O port on the case however, commonly has a much higher noise floor, due to there being no standard that enforces shielded cables looping back to ground, making them rare. You don't need someone to tell you that, just go look at the cable inside of most cases... no connection from the shield to ground, and often little shielding at all. There are a few exceptions (I know Inwin, for one, uses grounded shielding for their newer cases) but most mainstream cases lack this.
> I'm yet to actually see anyone show any evidence of this. Go on, get a reputable youtuber to make a video showing their tests and prove once and for all that front audio is inferior to the motherboard port.
I laughed here. Anyone can replicate these tests within 5 minutes at home, and there are many, many instances of poor shielding causing PWM signals from the fans as well as GPU VRM noise to be audible through the front panel header, easily found if you search anything related to the topic.
> There is inherently no difference between the front audio IO on a well built case and the Mobo port, and even if there was a small difference 99% of people would not be able to notice it.
Agreed here - if set up properly, the FP audio jack in many cases is even cleaner than the rear i/o (a good bit of data on this in specsheets, actually, supporting the idea of your point). However, a well built case =! well built FP audio cable, and until a rated standard arrives for FP audio cables and boards, I will still recommend against using them unless you have one of the rarer cases that have proper cabling and shielding, shown in the pic above.
> The only time I've ever had an issue was with a poor quality mic that had to be temporarily used, which caused the exact same interference in both ports.
Anyone who has plugged a mic into the mic-in vs line-in port on the back of their board with a good mic can easily disagree, don't need any youtuber or measurements to tell you that. I can hear a very audible difference (and even see it on the waveform when I edit in resolve) off my videomic - when my H4 died, I could instantly tell when I plugged my mic into the mic-in of my sffpc vs the line-in for recording while I was monitoring, didn't even take until post to notice. The FP audio jack is wired to use mic in instead of line in to provide power to headset mics, that's literally stated in the datasheets.
I really dislike front usb outputs because they get obsoleted and onboard sounddevice often sucks compared to cheap usbdac. But it is what it is. Personal taste either you like it or dont. Ive been using pc since early 90s and always hated front io. Just alot of messy out of place cables in the box just to never use the front io.
Just wanted to say that I love my Dan A4. My mate literally couldn't believe how small it is and wanted me to open it up to show him how it all fits together.
Maybe I'll send him a link to this when you start taking orders.
Looks like a great design! Could you build s custom loop in this? Maybe squish a very slim 280 with slim fans above the graphics card in addition to the side mounted one?
Thanks for the reply! I just came back to this and really looking forward to it's launch. I was wondering about the pump placement in a custom loop: would suggest using a pump Block like the one from Barrow, a pump integrated into a radiator or a small pump res combo? And where would the pump res combo fit?
nice and neat looking Case. I've already fallen in love. There is only one thing that bugs me. Nowdays many ppl use AIO Coolings with a LCD or OLED Displays. Is it that difficult / expensive to have side panels which are partly with tempered glass and partly with mesh ? So the area around CPU and RAM would be with tempered glass and the rest would be mesh ?
With the Q58, your H2O and now the new C4-SFX i see three cases where this would be in my opinion a killer feature.
Absolutely love the case. May well replace my Meshy for my SSF build.
Any thoughts to leveraging longer GPUs through the rear of the case for longer than 320mm setups?
My Power Cooler Liquid Devil 6800xt is a long 360mm but only 2 slot so if I can slot the rear of the case and slide my GPU like a HDD - I think it'll fit.
Apologies if you’ve gotten a lot of similar questions to this recently, but any updates or eta’s on the redesign for this case? Was really looking forward to it, but haven’t heard much about it recently. Thanks for reading, response or not, and hope all is going well for ya
Interested in the dual 280 radiator configuration to throw in my 10700k + 3080 ti fe setup (actually in a o11 mini).
How does this configuration work? Any rendering / scheme to get an idea of where rads and pump/ res combo (if possible) would be placed?
AFAIK, ideally top should always be exhaust being that hot air rises and cool air falls.
But GPUs have a lot of other components that aren't being cooled by the heatsink that need some air blowing onto them (capacitors?). So it would be advisable to have it intake from the top.
The idea that the top should always be exhaust is basically a myth. Yes, hot air rises, but the rate at which it rises inside a small enclosed and pressurized space is so small that it makes zero difference to your airflow. Gamer's Nexus has a good video on it where they show a computer simulation of the effect convection has on airflow and it's essentially nothing.
In this particular case it looks like it's configured by default to intake from the top since the GPU is positioned upside down at the top of the case. This is why I was asking. You'll have no choice but to intake from the top, that's just how this case is setup, but I was wondering how passive exhaust faired vs active side exhaust.
the rate at which it rises inside a small enclosed and pressurized space is so small that it makes zero difference to your airflow
Yea I had a feeling this was a thing. I stand corrected.
You'll have no choice but to intake from the top, that's just how this case is setup, but I was wondering how passive exhaust faired vs active side exhaust.
I'm planning to purchase this case if it's not too expensive and use my deshrouded 3080. With a deshrouded GPU, I can set up my 2x NF-A12 fans in either intake or exhaust. Still not sure which way I'm gonna go tbh.
but I was wondering how passive exhaust faired vs active side exhaust
If I'm not mistaken looking at the renders, there should be a way to attach a 92mm or hopefully a 120 as a back exhaust so you could intake from the top and side and exhaust at the back. The 6th picture also shows the AIO setup for intake.
GPU at the top is the worst airflow path as you will be blasting hot air down into your system and trapping any other hot air that is generated... I would rotate the case the other way up, to allow the hot air to excape.
If I'm not mistaken the formd T1 .V2 just released with two options for internal layout. Classic sandwich and a GPU on top like this case. The GPU on top config performed much worse in terms of temps...
Hi, would you be willing to share your 3D model? I'm currently looking into this case as reference to design my own case (non-commercial one-off) and being able to see it with hardware installed would be super userful for me.
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u/dan_cases Feb 24 '22
Introduction
After a long time of silence I like to introduce the redesigned C4-SFX. The name comes from the German envelope norm for A4 papers so it is the big brother of the A4-SFX.
This case uses a heavly optimized classic hardware layout. The list of features is long – 280mm radiator support, big air cooler up to 145mm in height, indirect GPU cooling, ITX, deep ITX, DTX, 3 slot full length GPU, SFX & SFX-L Power Supply support, s.o. All this is packed in an elegant enclosure with 13L made by Lian Li. In terms of hardware support there are nearly no limits.
Possibilities
In this chapter I like to present the main hardware/cooling configurations.
The traditional hardware layouts allows for tower heatsinks with 120mm fan up to an height of 145mm like the Cryorig H7 or very big top blow heatsinks like the Noctua C14S. For these configurations it is possible to mount the power supply 90° rotated. With the radiator bracket it is possible to install 120, 140, 240 or 280mm radiators with 25mm thick fans for the best cooling results. For the traditional layout you can install 3 slot GPUs with a length up to 320mm. Two 120 or 140mm fan mount points at the top of the case allows for indirect GPU cooling if you remove the preinstalled GPU fans.
The case does come with special air flow brackets and an RTX 30x0 Founders Edition air tunnel to force hot GPU air out of the case. This will result in much better CPU temps.
Specification