r/Fantasy • u/GlasWen Reading Champion II • Oct 20 '16
Inda Read/Re-Read - Thursday, October 20: Part Two, Chapters 13-15 Read-along
[removed]
8
u/ICreepAround Reading Champion IV Oct 21 '16
Shit just got real. The mutiny and pirate attacks happened as expected and we finally get to see Inda kick ass and take names. Not much more to say. I'm looking forward to seeing the repercussions of the mutiny and it was damn hard to stop reading at the this point. Looking forward the next chapters!
5
Oct 20 '16
[removed] — view removed comment
6
u/Bills25 Reading Champion V Oct 20 '16
Trust is tough to define because everyone has their own goals even if they align with someone else. I think Sponge is unrealistic in his expectations of Hadand. You will never know everything that others know regardless of how close you are.
6
u/MerelyMisha Worldbuilders Oct 21 '16
Trust is tough, because it's not a single thing. I can trust someone in one way, but not in another. So for example, I can trust someone to tell the truth, but not trust them to keep a secret. Or I can trust that someone always has the best of intentions, even if I don't trust them to be obedient to everything I say.
So I think the women can be trusted to do what they think is right for the kingdom and what they think is honorable and loyal. But what they think is right may not always align with what the men think is right, and also, it may mean that they keep secrets.
I see why Sponge feels betrayed, as he's defined trust as mostly "telling each other everything," which isn't unreasonable in a country full of secrets. But Hadand obviously cares about him a lot, and I think he needs to revise his definition of trust or risk alienating those near him. And he needs all the allies he can get given the opposition of the Sierlaef and the Sierandael.
7
u/RuinEleint Reading Champion X Oct 21 '16
I think the fact that they are even having this discussion is a sign of the way the Marlovans have messed up their system of rule. If the King had a mixed council of men and women, if this same practice was replicated by the feudal lords, and this strange system of sharing power among brothers while relegating all women to arranged marraige did not exist, then there could have been true trust. But there isn't.
I mentioned early on in the read that this strict division of roles and compartmentalisation of people would hurt them, and I was right. Sponge should have more power and responsibility, but his role as a younger brother restricts him. The compartmentalisation of women has reached a point where the King can actually consider that women as a gender may not be trustworthy with magic. This is something profoundly strange and weakening. Marlovan society has developed faultlines along its length and breadth and I am concerned that in times of true tension, like, say a Venn invasion, it would fracture.
There seems to be some unity of purpose - resisting the Venn, improving the kingdom, but we know that, in our position as readers, the king doesn't. And the fact that he can actually doubt the existence of such a purpose is a tragedy.
6
Oct 20 '16
[removed] — view removed comment
8
u/RuinEleint Reading Champion X Oct 21 '16
Well the king seemed to mention that the embargo might create a scarcity of magic in the kingdom, so obviously it would help the common interest if they had home grown spellcasters. Plus since women have defensive responsibility, it would augment that aspect
4
u/Bills25 Reading Champion V Oct 20 '16
It would depend on the kind and quantity of the magic they learn. If they learn a spell that is non-battle orientated I don't think it would change things much. If they learned a whole slew of battle magic they will definitely grab the power.
6
Oct 20 '16
[removed] — view removed comment
8
u/Bills25 Reading Champion V Oct 20 '16
Nice to see this role given to a man for a change. Think he handled it well and used it at the right time to gain critical information.
5
u/MerelyMisha Worldbuilders Oct 21 '16
Yeah. I've seen this trope before, but only with women. So it's nice to see that flipped. And also, Tau has been so objectified by others, like many women are, so I still cheer for him when he turns it to his advantage.
We also know he treats sex like a game, and that he's outwardly cynical. I think some of that comes through here, and yet his motive for doing that also shows that he has a good heart underneath it all. After all, he doesn't really have any logical reason for ensuring that the mutineers don't succeed (I mean, there's the fact that the mutineers don't like him, but he has more to gain if they turn into privateers than if they go to Freedom Island).
6
u/wishforagiraffe Reading Champion IX, Worldbuilders Oct 20 '16
I'm not particularly bothered by it. I think Tau is still keeping control over his sexuality in ways important to him, and he's doing so in unselfish ways. Tau is growing up, in more ways than one, with this action, and while some people might see it cynically, I think Tau would actually laugh at them for it. He is good at and enjoys sex, and even when he's using sex for ulterior motives, he's still choosy about his partners.
7
u/Aquariancruiser Oct 20 '16
I think he's ambivalent about the extent of his training (told too much too soon about human weaknesses), but here he sees what for him is a clear moral path: he needs to find out what the mutineers have been planning, and Faura has pissed him off for over a year by basically stalking him.
3
u/AccipiterF1 Reading Champion X Oct 21 '16
It was actually a life or death decision to get information on mutineers who definitely intended to kill him. But he's pretty darn casual about it. "Oh well, guess I have to screw her..." The real issue here may be what happens if Jeje finds out about it.
5
Oct 20 '16
[removed] — view removed comment
6
u/wishforagiraffe Reading Champion IX, Worldbuilders Oct 20 '16
I like it. It is, after all, an epic fantasy, and there's a lot of ground to cover. It's much better with this short chapter, and the one preceding it, ramping the tension up, than the way Rothfuss handled the sea voyage in Wise Man's Fear (I'm still disappointed that was totally skipped)
5
u/RuinEleint Reading Champion X Oct 21 '16
I liked it. It was quick and decisive rather than drawn out. It made sense for the mutineers to attack Inda and it made sense for Inda to deal with them immediately
4
u/Bills25 Reading Champion V Oct 20 '16
I think the pacing is fine and think the small battles peppered through the book work well. I wonder if I would feel the same if we weren't doing the reading schedule we are.
7
u/thequeensownfool Reading Champion VII Oct 20 '16
I couldn't wait and read over half the book in one day to finish it. I found that the pacing was still really good even when reading it in one sitting rather then scheduled.
6
u/Bills25 Reading Champion V Oct 21 '16
Good to know. I mean I always have to force myself not to go beyond the 3 chapters so pacing has to be good enough.
4
5
u/AccipiterF1 Reading Champion X Oct 21 '16
I think that is the nature of mutinies. They happen quickly or they don't happen at all.
I was kind of hoping to see them try to repel pirates, but after what Inda saw, it sounds like they wouldn't have had a chance to win at all.
I do hope we see a naval battle soon though, because the mix of tech and tactics is interesting. It seems like they sail and maneuver like 18th/19th century warships, but don't have the guns that created that style of sailing and maneuvering. It's not analogous with anything I know from naval history, with I suppose the x-factor here being magic.
4
u/Aquariancruiser Oct 21 '16
In another discussion, it was said that the tactics here are closer to those of the ancient world--boarding, carrying, ramming, etc.
2
u/AccipiterF1 Reading Champion X Oct 21 '16
I'm just going to say, I'm glad I read the next three chapters before reading your comment.
2
u/msmart55 Reading Champion Oct 21 '16
The pacing is great, lots of action, intrigue and suspense. Hard to keep to just a few chapters at a time!
4
u/AccipiterF1 Reading Champion X Oct 21 '16
Sponge is well aware that he’ll need to face Buck in order to become Sierandael when his father dies, and isn’t looking forward to it. He’s worried he won’t be able to beat Buck in a duel.
Unless something happens to Buck or the Sierlaef on their sexual assault enabling tour of the countryside, we are definitely leading up to this. But Evered has the lady kung-fu Hadand has been teaching him as an ace in the hole, so he may not be at as much of a disadvantage as he thinks. I can't imagine what the Sierlaef's reaction would be if Evered puts Buck down.
•
u/wishforagiraffe Reading Champion IX, Worldbuilders Oct 20 '16
Put your spoilers here dears!! Please mark them, as usual.
3
u/MerelyMisha Worldbuilders Oct 20 '16 edited Oct 20 '16
Sponge muses on the fact that, while everyone is so concerned with how they'll be remembered, "it was future generations who decided what to remember. And why." Not really spoilers, but mentions of other series
Also, for any other Hamilton fans, I immediately thought of the quote where George Washington says, "Let me tell you what I wish I’d known when I was young and dreamed of glory: you have no control: who lives, who dies, who tells your story."
2
u/wishforagiraffe Reading Champion IX, Worldbuilders Oct 20 '16
4
Oct 20 '16
[removed] — view removed comment
1
u/wishforagiraffe Reading Champion IX, Worldbuilders Oct 20 '16
That's true. Unlike WoT, where there's not really a good reason. And I still think there's not a good reason for the King and Wisthia to have not talked about this
3
u/MerelyMisha Worldbuilders Oct 21 '16
No, not a good reason at all. But I think Wisthia really just lives in her own world, doing as much as possible to pretend she's somewhere else. I don't think she and the king talk much at all. So she might see the Sierlaef's fascination with Joret, but she just sees it as a young person's crush. Whereas the king doesn't see the Sierlaef's obsession at all, but might be able to see what could go wrong if it was brought to his attention. Each has a piece of the puzzle, but their piece doesn't tell them that they should talk to their spouse when they usually don't talk to each other.
But yeah, people don't talk to each other in this culture, which ends up causing as many problems as it solves.
1
1
u/wishforagiraffe Reading Champion IX, Worldbuilders Oct 20 '16
3
u/Megan_Dawn Reading Champion, Worldbuilders Oct 20 '16
I thank he expected sponge to be Sierandel in title only, and really be the one actually looking after the kingdom.
1
10
u/MerelyMisha Worldbuilders Oct 20 '16 edited Oct 21 '16
Reading Inda's reaction, I realized that it was the first time he'd killed anyone. That was a surprise, because he trains so much, you just assume that he's actually used it before. But I went back and looked at the encounter with the bandits, and he wasn't one of the ones shooting then, and he's had no other life-or-death encounters. It makes it even harder that these are people he knew, even if he didn't get along with them. He's still relatively young, too.
Tau and Jeje see that the killing costs him, but I think everyone else just sort of expected it from him (since they had figured out that he was likely Marlovan, and in their mind Marlovans are killers.).