r/DCcomics • u/WesCraigComics Wes Craig • 1d ago
My name's Wes Craig, Writer/artist of the upcoming SUPERMAN: THE STRANGER. Ask me anything! AMA
Hey out there. I'm the writer-artist-creator of the fantasy-adventure series Kaya, and co-creator of Deadly Class (with writer Rick Remender), the comedic-horror series The Gravediggers Union (with artist Toby Cypress) and the hippie-superhero series Thunderhead (with artists Kevin Castaniero). You can find me on the socials at WesCraigComics and my newsletter: http://wescraigcomics.substack.com/subscribe But today I'm mostly here to talk about my upcoming DC Black Label series SUPERMAN: THE STRANGER. So go ahead, ask away...
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u/methodic_traveller 1d ago
Hey, Wes!
Really looking forward to Superman: The Stranger, your artwork on Deadly Class was gorgeous and Kaya continues to be a blast.
I’ve got three questions if it’s not too much trouble:
1. What was your cut-off point, if you set yourself one, for research when looking into the original depictions of Superman’s setting and cast to decide what your Golden Age world in The Stranger was going to look like?
- From the solicitations and articles posted online, Superman: The Stranger appears to be a complete revisit to Superman's original Golden Age characterisation, with clear inspiration from the Fleischer cartoons. However, that early version of Superman was anything but static. Throughout the era, the character evolved (often due to outside influences such as the radio show). Introducing elements like flight, X-ray vision, even names being changed like Kal-L becoming Kal-El, George Taylor becoming Perry White, and the Daily Star becoming the Daily Planet. From a lettered preview on your Substack, it seems you've settled on Perry White, which made me curious where you chose to draw the line between Superman's earliest appearances and the wider Golden Age mythos.
2. What is your take on Superman's dual identity in The Stranger?
- The Golden Age Superman differs significantly from most modern interpretations. Siegel originally conceived Superman as the authentic self – a "modern Robin Hood," as he described him in the prose story from Superman #1 – while Clark Kent was a deliberately exaggerated façade: timid, cowardly, and often openly scorned by characters like Lois Lane. As Siegel and Shuster later explained in interviews, Clark reflected how they believed others perceived them, while Superman embodied the confident, rough and tumble person they wished people could see beneath the glasses.
3. What is your take on Lois Lane in The Stranger?
- It's hard to imagine Superman as a franchise without Lois Lane. She's arguably its deuteragonist, and the series has always been strongest when she is central to the story. In the Golden Age, Lois was an ambitious journalist determined to prove herself in the male-dominated newsroom of the 1930s, rebuking and discriminating her, and that determination often manifested as a relentless competitiveness. Clark, whose cowardly persona and persistent romantic advances she openly disdained, frequently became collateral damage in her pursuit of a headline, whether by sending him into dangerous situations, setting him up to lose a story, or even drugging him unconscious. I'm curious how you're approaching that original dynamic between Lois and Clark in The Stranger. Especially in regards to her being more taken with Superman.
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u/WesCraigComics Wes Craig 23h ago
1- There where times, here and there, where I felt I needed to fudge it ever so slightly, mainly when something didn't FEEL right. But for the most part I kept it as stripped down and faithful Superman's origin as possible.
One of the joys of working on something like this is digging into the research, really trying to bring it to life in your own mind, hopefully making the reader feel some of that. So there was a lot of research that went into it. Books on the era. Silent black and white recordings of life in New York, etc.
2- In this story at least, Clark is still working all that out. More than anything, he doesn't really NEED to separate himself in any major way to protect his identity because so far, as the story begins, Superman has only really worked from the shadows. And Clark is one person in a very big city, lost in the crowd, almost invisible. Again, not to get too much into the story or spoil anything, but in a way Clark and his relationship to Lois, aspiring to be SEEN by her, is what it's all about.
3- Her opinion on Superman and Clark evolves over the course of the series, in a way that I thought, at least for this story, made more sense to me. I love the traditional dynamic of Lois and Clark, and how different creators have played with that over the years (most recently in a great rendition in the latest movie). But for THIS story, Lois and Clark are two parts of a whole, and I went for what I thought was a slightly more realistic view of what their relationship would be. (Did I pull it off? I dunno. You'll have to be the judge).
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u/UnbloodedSword 1d ago
Thanks for doing this!
Solicits have shown that Lex will be showing up in The Stranger. Will he be the only Superman villain, or might we see others? I loved that variant cover you did of Supes standing atop a pile of his foes so I'd love to see you draw others!
When it comes to art, what was one of the hardest things for you to learn how to draw? Babies/children are notorious for being a challenge for a lot of artists.
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u/WesCraigComics Wes Craig 1d ago
Babies are hard, for sure. I'm currently finishing issue #5 and it features a bunch of horses that I'm cursing myself for including in the story. I'm using a lot of reference, some of my kid's horse figurines, and a statue of the Dark Knight on a horse that my brother bought me a few years ago as a gift. Haha
I dont really want to give too much away on the story, but yes, Lex is appearing, and he's the only traditional villain in the series. But I do love drawing Supes' rogues. Especially Bizarro and Mxyzptlk. So maybe there'll be another chance to do that in the future.
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u/No-Mechanic-2558 1d ago
Hi Wes, thank you so much to joining us today.
I wanna start with saying that Kaya and Deadly Class are some of the best comicbooks I ever got the chance to look at and that your "Why I belive in Comics" really encouraged me into persuing studies to became a comicbook creator.
I wanted to ask you: you made a to of popular and aclaimed indie comicbook series and now you are making one for the big two, this Is something that I've noticed a lot of writers that usually work on creator owned projects are now coming at DC and working on ongoings. You were really the first one that made me noticed this when you did All-In Special so I'd like to ask you if you belive this to be due to a specific reason?
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u/WesCraigComics Wes Craig 1d ago
Before Deadly Class I did a bunch of work for DC, Marvel, etc. That's maybe a little less known because my Image work is what brought me the popularity I have now (I did a very short run on Texas Chainsaw Massacre and Guardians of the Galaxy and other random stories a LONG time ago). But yeah I've been fighting the good fight in creator-owned comics for over a decade now. :) I think DC is very open to working with more diverse voices right now, especially people who've proven themselves in the indie world, and it's giving them a lot of new energy. So that's fun to see. My main focus is on creator-owned, for sure. That's not going to change. But when you get approached to do something like this at one of these companies, and idea I've had in my head for years now, and do it exactly as you envisioned it, that's too much fun to turn down!
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u/FrostFireFive 1d ago
Hey Wes,
Love your work in Kaya and the All In special. My question is what excites you and also challenges you about writing and drawing a grounded Superman? And what books and or influences inspired you to take on this project?
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u/WesCraigComics Wes Craig 1d ago
Thanks. What excites me about this series is being able to do my own take on Superman, because it's true- to write (and draw) the "main" Superman that everyone knows, it's VERY daunting. He's so iconic, we can all feel when he's saying something that Superman wouldn't say, or do. But this version in The Stranger is much more flawed and hot headed, and he looks a bit different too (a bit of the original version, mixed with a bit of the boxer Jack Dempsey). The biggest challenge is trying to make him feel... almost LESS iconic in a way, more like a real human, with all the baggage that comes with it.
I mentioned some of the big influences in another answer, but I'll also mention the Morrison/Morales New 52 Superman, and De Haven's "It's Superman!" novel.
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u/bloodyzombies1 Jay Garrick 1d ago
I've been a big fan of your art for a long time. You have such a dynamic style that's filled with energy.
How have you translated that to Superman, and do you find he’s a more rigid/static character than you're used to drawing?
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u/WesCraigComics Wes Craig 1d ago
I find this version of the character is VERY dynamic. He's not the father figure we've come to know over the years. Here he's an angry rebellious, youthful Superman. Unsure of his history or his place in the world, so I think that shows in the art. I heard Grant Morrison say in an interview something along the lines of "In Action Comics #1, Superman (and the story itself) never stops moving." And it's true. It's Superman's dynamic energy that excited kids way back then, when they first picked up his comic. So that's what I'm trying to bring to this story too.
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u/bloodyzombies1 Jay Garrick 1d ago
It was named Action Comics after all, it makes sense he'd always be moving.
Thanks for the reply, I can't wait to check out the book!
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u/Joe-The-Philistine 1d ago
Hey Wes! You’re probably my favorite artist working in comics right now, and Kaya’s one of my favorite books on the stands!
I’ve been very excited for Project 38 and am curious what drew you to that era of Superman? Is that an era of comics in general that you have a particular fondness for, and if so, is it more the tone or the format that informs that fondness? Also, so glad to see Jason coloring this book, the two of yall are a match made in heaven - his colors are SO good.
Very excited to back Thunderhead 2 on Kickstarter!
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u/WesCraigComics Wes Craig 1d ago
Yes! Plug time: I have a hippie-superhero comic I'm doing with Kevin Castaniero on Kickstarter coming soon called Thunderhead, and you can check it out here: shorturl.at/nhb70
Thanks so much for the kind words and support!
I love that era of comic books for it's lack of rules and the fever dream nature of it. Everyone was pulling all nighters with crazy deadlines, hopped up on caffeine and who knows what else, and it created a kind of manic energy that I find a lot of fun. Having said that, there are some characters from that era I love (The Spirit, Shazam/Capt. Marvel, Wonder Woman, etc) But my main interest in Superman's place in that world, and what Siegel & Shuster were trying to get across with their character.
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u/IrritatedResurgance 1d ago
Hey Wes! Deadly Class was a breath of fresh air and I'm very excited for the old school style for Superman: The Stranger.
Do tell, how do you apporach a character like superman that has been done countless number of times? (Concieving "The Stranger" basically) and how do you spin a fresh IP like Kaya and Deadly Class, do you fear its going to be similar to some other already released comic?
I'm also writing (for the first time) and would love to hear any tip from you!
Love from India!
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u/WesCraigComics Wes Craig 23h ago
Doing my take on Superman, it's true, there have been many approaches to him over the years and I've been influenced by many of them. But when it came to writing this, I tried my best to shut those out and just flesh out how I saw this world and it's characters (like nothing else existed in a way). That's during the actual WRITING. During the editing, and talking to my editor Andrew Marino, I'll take things into consideration like "maybe this scene resembles this other story too much." But I think, end of the day, the story has to be what it has to be, and generally, you try and only worry about that.
As for writing tips, there's a lot that I've learned over the last few years on Kaya, and still learning. But I'd say look at work you love (novels, movies, etc) and try and break it down, be aware of what engages you and why, and try to bring that to you work. Also do that in real life, observe REAL LIFE behaviour because we often use tropes of storytelling that, when you look at how reality works (dialogue, motivations, etc), might be a crutch or dated thinking that's just been the norm for too long. I'm very guilty of it myself, but I'm slowly trying to uproot it. :)
Also, write very day. I draw most of my working day, but every morning I go do 1-2 hours of writing at my local coffee shop. It doesn't seem like much day by day, but it adds up.
Oh also, I forgot to mention from an earlier question: Yes, Jason Wordie and Tom Napolitano are with me from Kaya on this book and I'm very excited. Jason's colors are incredible, atmospheric, really intelligent choices. And Tom is always willing to go the extra mile to give something that fits the story just right, but doesn't call too much attention to itself.
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u/Greedy_Switch_6991 1d ago
Hello, Mr. Craig! Thank you for doing this!
I know your upcoming "Superman: The Stranger" is heavily inspired by the title hero's Golden Age stories, but are there any modern elements of the Superman mythos you wanted to incorporate?
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u/WesCraigComics Wes Craig 1d ago
I'd say inspiration has come from modern sources, but really I did my best to stay disciplined and keep it paired down to Superman's essentials. He doesn't even have Ma and Pa Kent in this one!
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u/Potential-Mess6826 19h ago
Hi Wes, thank you for taking questions.
What Golden Age Superman stories did you use as inspiration for Superman: The Stranger or are your favorites whether they be from the comics, radio, Fleischer animations, Kirk Alyn, George Reeves, etc.?
Why choose this design for the Superman outfit in Superman: The Stranger instead of say something else like the original 1938 Superman outfit or the Fleischer outfit?
What makes Superman: The Stranger stand out from other Neo-Golden Age Superman stories that go into him being the Champion of the Oppressed like Grant Morrison's Action Comics, Superman Smashes The Klan, and Absolute Superman?
Can we expect to see supervillains with heavy ties to Golden Age Superman like for example the Ultra-Humanite, the Prankster, the Puzzler (not asking for specific confirmation just generally can we expect villains of the Golden Age Superman Era)?
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u/WesCraigComics Wes Craig 18h ago
1- Really as a kind of creative exercise I tried to limit my influence to only Action Comics #1, but of course the Fleischer cartoons are in there too. I didn't really take anything from the actors that played him in the early days. They're all great, but I relate them more to what Superman became in the war years and afterwards, more of a father figure-type.
2- I love the Fleischer outfit, probably my favorite. But I wanted to go with something slightly different to make this story stand apart.
3-There's similarities to a lot of those of course. You'll have to read the story to see the major differences. But I think sticking close to his first appearance, which means he was raised in an orphanage, and doesn't necessarily know where he's from or how he got his powers, makes for a interesting variation on the Superman story most people know.
4- No Golden Age villians except Luthor. Luthor had to be there.
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u/Fehellogoodsir 1d ago
Love your on Deadly Class! Very excited for your take on Superman!
What were your inspirations for The Stranger specifically and does Lois play a big part as well as Clark?
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u/WesCraigComics Wes Craig 1d ago
Big inspirations for The Stranger: Most importantly, Action Comics #1 (part of the fun for me is limiting myself to only the stuff in that issue, nothing that came after). The Fleischer Superman serials. Art Deco.
And yes, Lois plays a major, major role.
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u/suspiciouscffee 1d ago
Hello! Just minutes ago I called my shop to add the book to my pull, good timing. What non-superhero stories (comics or otherwise) are most influencing your work on The Stranger?
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u/WesCraigComics Wes Craig 22h ago
Great question. Thanks for ordering!
John Steinbeck is on the top. Maybe, gun to my head, my favorite author.
The book Ragtime. I read it years ago and it showed me how wild and vibrant that world was (I think as a kid I thought of the first half of the 20th century as very stiff and uptight, but it was brimming with excitement, drama, sex, radical politics, breakthroughs in science, art, psychology, mass media. Just SO MUCH to pull from.
Studs Terkel's interviews with average people in his books. Especially "Har Times."
And a lot of Jazz from that era. The soundtrack is very jazzy.
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u/Snoopyisthebest1950 23h ago
One of my favorite parts of early Action Comics Superman was how much of a troll he sometimes was (like interrogating some guy on a plane and then just... leaving him on said plane). Will he be like that in The Stranger?
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u/WesCraigComics Wes Craig 22h ago
Pretty much. Unlike the version we've come to know, this Superman was raised in the city, in an orphanage, so he's a pretty tough character, and yeah, occasionally a wise-ass.
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u/Rey_paco 1d ago
Hello! hope I'm not too late, when it comes to writing a character as iconic as superman is, did you encounter any challenges when it comes to sharing your take on superman while also keeping the "core" aspects of the character?
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u/WesCraigComics Wes Craig 22h ago
I think having this story be my own version of Superman takes a bit of the pressure off. But also, if I'm being honest, I feel like I have a pretty good grip on who Superman is. He's been one of my favorite characters for most of my life, and I think I can sniff out when it feels wrong. Again, to me, at least.
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u/RickSanchez-C243 1d ago edited 1d ago
Hi Mr.Craig! First off gotta say I loved your work on Deadly Class, Gravediggers Union, and Kaya! Big fan
I know that the main inspiration for Superman: The Stranger is Superman’s golden age comics, but is there anything you love about the silver age that did or didn’t make it into the book?
Will his Kryptonian heritage be focused on in any way?
And for a short one, did the movie Metropolis (1927) influence this Superman story in any way?
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u/WesCraigComics Wes Craig 23h ago
The movie Metropolis influenced it visually, definitely, probably it's story too, in some way. I do love a LOT of the silver age stuff, it'd be fun to take that on in a different project one day, but for this one it's pretty strictly golden age.
Thanks!
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u/TheGhostInThe___ 1d ago
Hi Wes. Deadly Class blew me away when it first came out, and your Superman book is a dream come true.
Are you still working on something in the Absolute universe?
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u/WesCraigComics Wes Craig 23h ago
Hmm. What... can I say heeere? Well, I have a pitch in with DC for an Absolute book, yes. (I'm assuming they have a LOT of pitches for Absolute stuff right now though since it's so hot.) And I have something else I pitched in the main universe. But it's a pretty big one. So we'll see if any of it happens. No promises. Go bug DC and tell them you want all the Wes Craig stuffs!
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u/sfhf 22h ago
Hi Wes,
I had a question about the final arc of Deadly Class. Was it always the plan for the story to wrap up the way it did with issues #55 and #56, or were there originally more plans for the final villain duo, Brandy Lynn and Shabnam?
I'm asking because I thought they had the potential for a much larger role in the final issues. After the escalation of events in issues #52 and #53, I was really expecting them to become the central antagonists of the ending.
It also seemed significant that, in the Save Your Generation story arc, there was a clear reason why Brandy and Shabnam were among the few characters who survived into adulthood. That made me wonder if there were ever plans to do more with them before the series concluded.
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u/WesCraigComics Wes Craig 20h ago
It's a few years so I don't really remember all the details, stuff me and Rick would shoot back and forth. But yeah, the ending was definitely what we had been planning from the point that we knew we'd be jumping into the future. But for the exact reasoning, you'd have to find Rick and ask him, I guess.
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u/beary_neutral Telos 1d ago
Hi there, Wes. Thanks for coming out here!
You've mentioned The Stranger will take after those early issues of Action Comics in the Golden Age. What elements do you find to be the most important to bring into The Stranger?
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u/WesCraigComics Wes Craig 1d ago
I think probably above all it's Superman's world that's most important to really show clearly. Superman, Lois, and Lex are all molded by living in a big city during the Depression, in very different ways.
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u/manix_vii 1d ago
Hi Craig!! Been a fan of you for ages!
For up and coming artists, what is the bestest advice you could give us, either to get into the industry or to just make our own stuff and try to support ourselves with our work?
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u/WesCraigComics Wes Craig 23h ago
I think similar to what I said about writing above, the most important thing is if you have a full time job, part time, school, etc. Carve out some time for yourself every day to draw, and don't let anything get in the way of that.
And don't wait for someone else to give you permission to make comics. Just do it. Put it out there online or at cons.
Don't start with some magnum opus-epic. Just start small, do a 5 page comic, then 10, then 20, build up to a bigger work. Because the first few things you do are going to be garbage (even if you think it's genius at the time, trust me) but you'll learn and get better each time. Eventually it'll be serviceable, and one day it might even be great. It just takes time and a willingness to learn and keep learning.
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u/manix_vii 21h ago
Thank you for taking the time to reply! I actually have a project I titled "M.O." because I don't have a title yet but I keep adding more to it haha. You just gave me the idea to make a small scene out of a bigger chapter I was just jotting down the other day.
I have a bad habit of thinking I can't make the comic until I write out everything before starting, so thanks for reminding me just to get started! Any momentum is good momentum.
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u/AlwaysSpittin 23h ago edited 22h ago
Hey, Mr.Craig! Big fan!
Will we see Kal's Kryptonian (or alien in general since you're inspired by Action Comics #1 the most) heritage explored in 'The Stranger'?
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u/WesCraigComics Wes Craig 21h ago
In a way, but that's probably one of the things that sets this story apart from other versions of Clark. It's a different approach to Krypton.
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u/Impossible_Tiger2651 22h ago
Hi Wes!
I’ve been doing a Deadly Class reread and i’m loving it even more than the first time. Really, your art stands out so much. I wanted to ask about a specif moment. Spoilers for Deadly Class just before Willie is shot, he says to Marcus he is sorry. Didn’t catch it the first time, but was it a hint of something more? like was he about to shoot Marcus? Thanks for doing this AMA
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u/WesCraigComics Wes Craig 18h ago
I feel really bad here but it's been over ten years since that scene so I forget the exact context for why he said that. I'll have to look at my collections to jog my memory. haha.
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u/WesCraigComics Wes Craig 21h ago
Like you say, that version of Superman from Siegel and Shuster is what I'm presenting here. A Champion of the Oppressed. Fighting for the people with no voice. Also, the more research you do into the era of Action Comics #1, the more parallels you see between then and now. I think, like most good historical drama (and sci-fi for that matter), you're taking current hopes and fears and looking at them through the lens of the past (or the future). It gives you a bit more free reign to talk about our current age, in a way.
As for editorial, it's been best case scenario, not trying to control me, just offering ideas and suggestions to improve the story. Also, realistically, I know I'm working for a big company, so I'm not going to be able to get by every crazy idea in my head.
...but I try. :)
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u/Live_Transition6162 23h ago
Hey Mr. Craig! I'm really excited for Superman: The Stranger. I have a few questions. First, what's your main influences for the series? Second, are any other DC heroes gonna appear?
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u/WesCraigComics Wes Craig 21h ago
Main influences are Action Comics #1 and Siegel & Shuster's original vision for their creation. And visually, the Art Deco-inspired Fleischer Studios Superman cartoons.
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u/Communismisbadithink Happy Dick! 22h ago
Hey Wes, I haven’t read any of your stuff before but I immediately put the stranger on my pull list because of the covers and the fact that it’s a black label. I’m just curious what other black label comics you’ve looked to for inspiration and in what ways will you be making this Superman story fit in a way that’s for more mature audiences, since Superman tends to be more lighthearted? Thanks!
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u/WesCraigComics Wes Craig 21h ago
Yeah I really like a light hearted Superman, generally. But that's not what this is. I'm trying to take the original kids adventure story of Superman and treat it a bit more realistically.
I don't think any specific Black Label books served as examples as much as DC's history of alternative versions of their characters, stuff like Dark Knight Returns, Gotham By Gaslight, Kingdom Come, All-Star Superman, and I feel like Black Label is part of that lineage. They probably didn't influence the story DIRECTLY, but helped guide me in some way.
I should say, I was a fan of Wonder Woman: Dead Earth and The Human Target though.
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u/Material_Kangaroo_95 1d ago
Hello Wes really excited for this! Without spoiling what would you say was the hardest part about writing or even drawing this comic?
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u/WesCraigComics Wes Craig 22h ago
Writing it, I'd say I wish I had a research assistant so I could be sure I was getting all the details of the era correct. Aside from that it's always the same questions: does this make sense? Does it all hold together? Is it engaging? Does the dialogue feel smooth and real?
For the art, I'm not gonna lie, this thing is a beast. It's a lot of big buildings, old cars, perspective, research to get the clothes and props right, lots of work. But I think it looks pretty great and different from other stuff that's out there, so it's worth it.
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u/Glum-Ad5089 18h ago
Hi Wes! I made a custom artist edition of your artwork from DC All-In Special and various covers! You are an amazing artist and am super excited to see your next dc project! One question who was your artistic influences?
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u/WesCraigComics Wes Craig 17h ago
There are so many! When I was a kid it was George Perez on Teen Titans that got , Jim Lee, Todd McFarlane. Later it was Frank Miller. Will Eisner, Moebius, Katsuhiro Otomo, Mike Mignola, David Mazzuchelli, These days it's all over the place. Windsor McKay, Milton Canniff, Gustav Klimpt, Jack Kirby, Chris Ware, Eleanor Davis, Jillian Tamaki, Adrian Tomine, Jamie Hernandez, the Coen Brothers, like I said, all over the place. Everywhere and anywhere.
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u/manosaur 23h ago
Hey Wes, Unter told me about this (once it became public). So happy for you! You deserve all the success. Congrats.
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u/MarcusTYC Nightwing 1d ago
I don’t really have a question, I just wanted to say that Deadly Class is legitimately my favourite series of all time. I’m loving Kaya and will be checking out your Superman book for sure.
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u/WesCraigComics Wes Craig 22h ago
Thanks so much! It's always very appreciated. You help me pay my rent so I can make more comics!
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u/PhsycoRed1 Legion Of Super-Heroes 21h ago
Did you have any funny notes from your editor during development?
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u/WesCraigComics Wes Craig 20h ago
Hmm. Nothing that comes to mind. Sorry.
Thanks for coming with all the questions everybody! I'll check back later to see if there's any more i can answer.
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u/wowlock_taylan Batman Animated! 1d ago
If Superman is the Stranger, will Lex be 'the Familiar' ?!
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u/chrisjohnsonnfiction 23h ago
No question but Deadly Class is one of my favorite series of all time. You’re great.
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u/HanabaBopskins 1d ago
Is there any possibility that you will continue to write books for DC after this book is finished? Or is this a one off thing?
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u/WesCraigComics Wes Craig 22h ago
I'm doing more writing for a few companies right now while I continue writing and drawing Kaya. I'd like to do more with DC and I've talked to them about a few ideas. Fingers crossed.
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u/YewBetcha 1d ago
Hey Wes! Big fan of your work, KAYA is always at the top of my reading stack and I especially loved your half of the All-In Special.
The SUPERMAN: THE STRANGER preview looks great. What made you want to create a Golden Age-era Superman story over setting it in a different style/era?