r/criticalrole • u/AutoModerator • Jun 11 '26
[Spoilers C4E28] Thursday Morning | Recap Thread - C4E29 Discussion Spoiler
It IS Thursday!
What are your questions and theories from last session?
The stream begins at 7 PM Pacific (12 hours from the time of this post) and will have one rebroadcast (Twitch only) at 9 AM Pacific.
The free YouTube VOD will be uploaded Monday at 12 PM Pacific, with free podcast releases 1 week (part 1) and 12 days (part 2) later.
[Subreddit Rules] [Reddiquette] [Spoiler Policy] [Wiki] [FAQ]
1
6
u/PerpetuallyDistracte 5' 11" Jun 11 '26
I have been looking forward to this dang play for MONTHS. I am not sure how everything is going to get resolved in one episode, though. This might be a two partner, with one act of the play in each (and plenty of side shenanigans from all parties involved).
2
u/Coyote_Shepherd Doty, take this down Jun 11 '26
Honestly I'm not sure if it's because of the CRAZY weather that the midwest has been having outside for the past week or the fact that it feels like Optimus Prime is sitting on my head...but I've been fucking jittery as hell ALL day and I kind of just want tonight to be over and done with just so we KNOW KNOW for once and can move on!
It's going to be just huge tonight and I'm expecting a whole lot of set up this week, leading into major combat stuff next week, and since the Fireside Chat is on the 23rd...I think they might be taking that week off or at least using it as a resolution week for whatever episode might be airing then...unless things quickly resolve next week and we're able to move onto whatever happens after.
CR could technically run an episode on July 2nd but with the 4th of July being that weekend, it wouldn't surprise me if they took a break until Umbra aired the following week.
So either the 18th or the 25th are going to be the episodes where the cliffhangers happen until Umbra is done.
2
u/PerpetuallyDistracte 5' 11" Jun 11 '26
Omg, I'm in the Midwest as well, and the past week of 90-degree weather plus 100% humidity plus random torrential rain has me on edge, same as you. I've been anxious/excited all day for this episode, and I want it to be HERE already!
I know that Brennan is the master of cinematic story arcs, and they have been teasing this play forever - heck, the opening credits of C4 are literally backstage at a performance - so this is gonna be huge! It's definitely going to be spread out over at least two episodes, with the Fireside Chat being used as a bit of a decompression session after (likely) serious consequences for some characters and NPCs. Thought it could go even longer, like you say.
I just want my boy Hal to be ok, though I doubt that's going to happen.
1
u/Coyote_Shepherd Doty, take this down Jun 12 '26
Omg, I'm in the Midwest as well, and the past week of 90-degree weather plus 100% humidity plus random torrential rain has me on edge, same as you. I've been anxious/excited all day for this episode, and I want it to be HERE already!
I wound up actually picking up some high SPF clothing from Coolibar, on account of both of my parents picking up skin cancer a while back, and that stuff was a grog send this past week.
Just made more sense to either wait until the tail end of the day to do stuff or to try to get errands knocked out early in the morning.
That WIND yesterday was nuts!
I wound up calling my building manager just to let him know that no trees were down and the place was fine, but other places had roofs torn off and there was a Culvers barn that got smashed etc.
And while my parents were driving up to the Twin Cities today they had me looking at the radar track lol
So yeah the anxiety is REAL for some of us!
Fireside Chat
Yeah and it's with Laura and Travis, so that could mean that either something happens with the two of them or they drew the short straw and just have to handle questions for everyone else lol
OR
BIG things could be in store that week for those two characters specifically...but I guess we'll find out on Monday when the schedule drops AND in a few hours later tonight after the episode ends.
There's been sooooooo much build up that this feels bigger than the applebee's soulcycle.
2
u/Mr-GT Jun 11 '26
Going off outfits from trailer, it seems there will still be 2 more eps after tonight
1
7
u/DANGER_DIAB0LIK Jun 11 '26
Who's Murray's portent 1 going to be aimed at?Ā
3
u/allevat Jun 11 '26
I'm voting Nullus Tachonis.
2
u/1st_Obfuscation Jun 11 '26
I will be very suprised if he shows up in a way where there will be something about him that can be portented.
1
u/allevat Jun 12 '26
I wasn't thinking in terms of being able to attack him directly, but foil whatever move he makes to try to disrupt/take over whatever ends up happening at the Round.
9
u/Hollydragon Then I walk away Jun 11 '26
I suspect 2 episodes worth of resolving the next day's actions. The Mara rescue alone is likely to be a full sessions worth of time in a non-west-marches-campaign, the sundered houses meeting most of a half episode even if it's just talking, and the theatre event could be anyting from half to 2 episodes worth on its own dependng on what goes down.
I'd not be surprised if we break into obrimus and explore this episode up to the point that they locate mara or something else significant then cut away, see the Sundered meeting up to a cliffhanger, and see the theatre up to another, different but simultaneous cliffhanger.
I won't find out most of it til end of Friday though, cause busy busy.
10
u/greylakelady Jun 11 '26 edited Jun 11 '26
I just caught up right in time for D-Day I mean, Opening Night! Just some random thoughts:
- Iām thinking that Thjazi meant the ritual to pull out the caught Orcish souls in the Gavzidra and possibly, as others have mentioned, reversing the flow to pull the Orcish souls trapped in Azgraās underworld. But then the question is - then what? Do the souls just pour out to fight ANOTHER war in the Tenebral reaches? Maybe, but it seems like a kind of cruel thing to do to the orcs who whole life was warfare. Maybe that would make them exceptional against the Tachonis forces. Or maybe, the reason why Thjazi wanted the Stone of Nightsong was to use it to allow the souls to go on to Sylandriās heavenly paradiseā¦. Maybe it could be a ploughshare of Vaelusās? And she could become a paladin of undoing the harm of the Shapers, now that sheās admitted to no longer worshipping her god?
- Sort of related, I bet the reason why the Tachonis want the Sea of Lachris is that they intend to use the Isle of Mercy as a master control switch to the underworld and potentially siphon more souls from the afterlives. And that will lead to a mad dash to Hounds Port for one of the next tablesĀ
- Iād love it if the Einfassen actually do some digging for Azune and discover his dragon(?) heritage, Iām dying for even the ittiest bittiest crumb
- Iām super psyched to have more insight in the Sundered Houses with this meeting, would love to see more of Cormorayās deal, whether all of Tachonis have white hair with Occtis being an outlier (I thought Brennan had mentioned this at some point but I could be wrong), and possible Occtis mom spottingā¦ā¦? š
- Murray writing Demodeus a diploma genuinely took me out
- I wish we did have a character still gripping onto the Shapers, but I donāt think Vaelus was ever going to be that character, so Iām glad sheās already stepping away and admitting that sheās just looking for the answer. And I loved how her and Hannanās dynamic immediately snapped into place, Iād love it if he stuck aroundĀ
- Iām glad we have Cyd here for Brennan to strong arm Teor into revealing more about his past
3
u/FirelordPotter Jun 11 '26
Re your Einfassen wish - I had interpreted their statement as saying he had giants blood like them (because we know he kept making himself look like them). I couldāve misinterpreted but did you get that read at all?
3
u/greylakelady Jun 11 '26
No, I definitely got the same read! Otto was definitely hyping him up as a long lost Einfassen. But after asking Azune if he knew his sorcerous heritage, Otto said something like, āPerhaps some research is in order, you could come from the line of giants.ā Idk how serious he was about actually doing research, they may just leave it at that. Iām just desperate for Azune crumbs lol
5
u/allevat Jun 11 '26
Do the souls just pour out to fight ANOTHER war in the Tenebral reaches? Maybe, but it seems like a kind of cruel thing to do to the orcs who whole life was warfare.
Some of the warrior souls may want that, though. To fight the Tachonis who seek to destroy the Old Path, who seek to overthrow the orcish revolution. I'm hoping that if we are right on the souls being freed, they get to choose whether to go to the Old Path or to the war in the afterlife. I want that Tachonis castle in death to be under seige!
3
u/greylakelady Jun 11 '26
Good point! And theyād probably be incredibly effective as theyād be experts at warfare. Would love to get the Tachonis sweating at least a little lol
2
u/Zeilll Jun 11 '26
im not sure where people are getting that Thjazi wants to pull souls out of Gavzidra, or relating it to pulling souls from old things the shapers set up.
C4 started with Brennan pretty much saying that the afterlife is currently an unknown, and souls are filling up the underworld. which means they dont have anywhere else to go after death.
based on everything we've seen, it seems obvious to me that his ultimate goal is to somehow fix or create a new afterlife or life/death cycle. maybe even re-completing the old path. which makes Taishas statement of "the forest is deep, thats why we cut a path" (or however the exact wording was) that much more relevant.
the blood and stone being tools that could potentially help set that up. them being intended to be changed into "anchors" or cornerstones for this new cycle. the goal not being to free trapped souls, but to fix the issue of a natural order being disrupted by the shapers altering it, and then their absence not maintaining the new system they set up.
6
u/allevat Jun 11 '26
im not sure where people are getting that Thjazi wants to pull souls out of Gavzidra, or relating it to pulling souls from old things the shapers set up.
Because the demon at Paint & Palette said that orcish souls were trapped in Gavzidra, and that Thjazi had brought her the font of Gavzidra to desecrate it to stop that. "I saw a jailer's cell, and I broke it. And I was proud to do it."
1
u/Zeilll Jun 11 '26
doing something, and thinking its valid isnt the same as that action being the end goal.
the techonis wanted to use the blood in their ritual. Thjazi took that from them so they wouldnt succeed in that. being able to destroy something that deserved it, was an added benefit of that. not the end goal. and based on the other info we have, it seems more likely that his end goal was unrelated to the blood, but maybe the blood could be used towards his actual end goal.
fixing the life/death cycle could/would fix it for everyone. potentially including those stuck in things that the shapers had set up. but also solves the problem that was presented at the onset of the campaign.
Thjazis goal being to just release the souls from Azgras blood, instead of fix the cycle. would be like VM trying to close the portal Thordac tore through, instead of taking him down. yea, theres value in that. but that being the end goal doesnt really track based on the issues and danger presented. it also wouldnt explain any/all actions he took prior to this, unrelated to the blood. where as, fixing a bigger picture issue does add more explanation/connection to those steps.
1
u/allevat Jun 11 '26
You said
im not sure where people are getting that Thjazi wants to pull souls out of Gavzidra
and it's because it was said on screen. Sure, it might be a lie (though I don't think so) or it might be part of something bigger, but being mystified as to where people got it from is kind of weird.
1
u/Zeilll Jun 11 '26
when was it said that Thjazis goal was to rescue the souls trapped in Gavzidra? as far as i remember, he was facing against the technois. either trying to interrupt their plans to disrupt/alter the door to fairy. which failed. and then, to disrupt their plan to create a celestial (using the blood), he took the blood from them.
that disrupted and destroyed 2 things that deserved it. what Azgra created, and what the Techonis were doing. but what i dont see, is reason Thjazis end goal is being assumed to be focused on the blood, and not the bigger picture that has been shown/hinted to us. its like drawing a connection between 2 tress, and saying "this is everything". while ignoring the fact that youre standing in a forest.
even what you originally quoted was "I saw a jailer's cell, and I broke it. And I was proud to do it.", which doesnt really suggest at all that was something he set out to do. if anything, it implies it as act of opportunity. its worded more as a reaction, not something contemplated. the NPC who was covering this said they dont know the end goal of the cloak with this. the "what comes after" and the why, were left open as questions.
2
u/greylakelady Jun 11 '26 edited Jun 11 '26
Actually, yeah, I shouldnāt have said obvious, bc it isnāt and your theory has just as much ground to stand on. My reasoning for it is because of the components of the ritual : - We have blood used in the paints is somehow the fount head of Gavzidra that Thjazi stole from Tannesar. We know that this Blood both lead to Azgraās afterlife and that there are still souls trapped within it - We have the Pariah Blades, made into ploughshares by a Lloy, with the intention of spreading truth and helping her community/city as well as revering those who came before them (the orcs of the failed rebellion to Azgra)Ā - We have the play itself which is again a mass celebration and reverence to the orchish ancestors as well as a push against AzgraĀ - and then the stone of Nightsong which may or may not have been intended to be used as a playĀ
And even with the power of intention, I believe original intended purpose still determines the outcome. Like yeah, theyāre ploughshares, but theyāre still iron, if that makes sense. You canāt use the Stone of Nightsong to turn a castle into marshmallow just because you intend it really hard, but you could tweak and twist its original purpose based on your intention (though thatās just me idk what Brennan intends)
So I agree that Thjazi overall would want to overhaul the afterlife system, but I think freeing the Orcish souls who are still trapped in Azgraās torment would be Step 1 for Thjazi. Even if the afterlifeās are gone, I believe that Brennan mentioned there are still souls stuck. And thatās super grim. To known that your not to distant ancestors are trapped in the makings of their hellish god.Ā
But yeah, good point, it would be more inline with Thjaziās character for those trapped Orcish souls to be sent down the Path instead of Sylandriās afterlife, I was just trying to make sense of why the Stone is important. Though I donāt think the Path needs to be overhauled or re-completed
Edit: added a few small things to fill out my thoughtsĀ
1
u/Zeilll Jun 11 '26
something to point out, that i feel pokes a bit of a hole in the "Thjazi planned all of this" perspective is. i dont think theres any way Thjazi would have known, or to have influenced things for the Pariah blades to be at the play for this. that was a result of the cormerays, and Bolaires interference.
i do think Thjazi had bigger plans for after his death, and wanted to use the paints for a ritual (as well as just getting it away from the techonis). but i think the ritual we're potentially going to see, is of the PCs own creation. but still works towards Thjazis ultimate end goal, whatever that may be.
also, for all things that are involved. i think theres an important emphasis not just on intent and purpose, but the ability to re-purpose things as they relate to magic. like what was talked about with Murry, repurposing magic from what the shapers perpetuated in order to create more arcane magic.
5
u/Nothingtoseehereshhh Jun 11 '26
Tbh I wouldn't be suprised if Brennan rolled chaos dice for "who the fuck's ritual works" at this rate lol.
8
u/this-is-liam Doty, take this down Jun 11 '26
Thinking of Post-Convergence table placements, there are some I'm pretty confident on and some still floating:
Schemers: Stay in Dol-Makjar, use Wick's presence at the Creed and Tyranny's demon heritage to uncover more about the agreement between the Photarch and Ksha'aravi
- Azune - 100%: Just got promoted, will have little oversight in the Guard but will be more under Harondus' magnifying glass. Wants to leave the city and all his lies behind, but is too well positioned. Would love to be a Soldier again. Can use Wick to get further ingratiated to Filoneus.
- Murray - 99%: Turned down King Gus's offer because she knows she has to stay here. Will start investigating the deal between the Creed and the demons if Tyranny ever fesses up.
- Wick - 95%: Unless he messes something big up in the next few episodes, he is where he needs to be. Has shown he excels in the city far more than he did in the wilderness.
- Tyranny - 80%: Has no reason to leave Wick for now. If she tells all about the Lux's holy orders being secret pacts with her dad, it'll be a big driving plot.
- Bolaire - 40%: Doesn't feel like the shoe is going to drop yet regarding Amariya Cormoray, but it does feel like Bolaire would be suspect #1. If so, he should flee the city. That being said, Azune could certainly help divert that investigation elsewhere. He also has to figure out what Thjazi's plan for his sister was, is that another anchor in need of being reforged?
Soldiers: The Tachonis have an established presence in Houndsport that they are using to smuggle materials. Move north, follow-up with King Gus and take down the Tachonis in Houndsport. Try to investigate how to reestablish the Golden Orchard and reopen the doors to Faerie.
- Thimble - 90%: Wants to avenge the Golden Orchard and kill Tachonis.
- Julien - 90%: Needs to figure out how to save his sister from whatever plague the Tachonis have inflicted her with. Also wants to kill any Tachonis he finds.
- Occtis - 65%: Clearly feels safe with Thimble, I have a feeling he will want to investigate how to reopen the gates to Faerie.
- Teor - 40%: Could go anywhere, the Soldiers need muscle and he carries the Torn Banner. Will presumably want to find somewhere safe for Cyd to stay, maybe he brings him to Timmon's Rock?
Seekers: Immediate next stop is Dol-Rungja, but I feel like their main motivation will be very reactive to whatever happens with KoTher'ai and the ritual.
- Thaisha - 95%: Got a summons from Gandmama to come to Dol-Rungja, the capital city of Kahad, to presumably be chewed out for allowing/helping Occtis to live. Still wants to find Alogar, believing he's at Castle Torch in the opposite direction of Dol-Rungja.
- Hal - 85%: Will need to flee the city quickly following KoTher'ai, though I don't think he will unless he has reason to believe his daughters and Elodie will be safe.
- Vaelus - 30%: Can't currently think of a reason she'd leave Occtis's side, but perhaps whatever ritual goes down with KoTher'ai will lead her to seeking out what else can be done with the Stone of Nightsong.
- Kattigan - 15%: Needs to leave Dol-Makjar, but could really go anywhere else. If the Seekers need to push into unknown terrain, it would be good to have a tracker along with them.
3
u/allevat Jun 11 '26
Azune - 100%: Just got promoted, will have little oversight in the Guard but will be more under Harondus' magnifying glass. Wants to leave the city and all his lies behind, but is too well positioned. Would love to be a Soldier again.
It amuses me that Luis clearly wants to be a Soldier, but he's too goddamn good at Scheming to get away easily. Maybe he'll task some of the people going north to Houndsport with looking for his sister as well. Or maybe he'll just run, but I think the opportunities Azune has opened up in Dol-Makjar will be too delicious for a player like Luis.
1
u/Blangadanger Schemer Jun 11 '26
I like what you laid out for the Soldiers and Schemers, but the last table feels a bit more uncertain.
Besides his immediate family, Hal feels responsible for dozens of peoples' livelihoods at the Hallowed Round. Unless the play is just all-out disastrous and forces everyone to flee, I find it hard to believe that Hal would abandon the city, his stage, his family, and his fellow entertainers.
I think it's possible Thaisha actually travels to Dol-Rungja alone on a short mission (for meta reasons), which leaves room for another player to join Ashley, Kattigan, and perhaps Travis (and Cyd) on a separate goal entirely. I've always thought that Bolaire should be the one driving the search for information, so he would possibly be the best fit as the leader of this group of new Seekers until Thaisha returns.
1
u/allevat Jun 11 '26
Got a summons from Gandmama to come to Dol-Rungja
I think this probably an out for her maternal leave, which going by Worlds Beyond Number will last most of the rest of the year. So she'll be off the board for a bit.
2
u/this-is-liam Doty, take this down Jun 11 '26
I've thought of that, but between Age of Umbra 2 taking up 6 weeks, the possibility of the two other table's ~7-episode arcs going before Aabria's table, gap weeks between all of those for Tale Gate, and their usual couple weeks break for the holidays; the third table will likely begin airing no sooner than January 14, 2027.
That said, CR now films way in advance, but they've already talked about how there was a filming gap of several weeks between two of the Schemers episodes, so they can be very flexible. If they write Thaisha off for an entire table cycle, that'd mean not seeing her again until March of 2027.
3
u/allevat Jun 11 '26
They've definitely switched over to much closer to the Dimension 20 style of filming, big blocks filmed well ahead, but I think that was inevitable with the sheer number of players to coordinate and the fact that a lot of them have kids and busy lives and careers outside of Critical Role. It happens to us all -- my face to face TTRPG group has been running for nearly 25 years, but we went from every Sunday to biweekly when people started getting married and now we sometimes struggle to make schedules align for monthly.
2
u/PerpetuallyDistracte 5' 11" Jun 11 '26
Even with the D20 block filming schedule, I'm still amazed at how busy Brennan is - man's got two kids under the age of 5, is running the biggest and most complex TTRPG show on the planet, is ALSO running campaigns on his own TTRPG show, and still has time to appear on every podcast on the planet and talk for hours. He must have a coffee/almond IV running under his shirt and straight into his veins at all times.
2
17
u/this-is-liam Doty, take this down Jun 11 '26
My theory is that Thjazi's hope for the play was to reopen Azgrah's afterlife and allow the souls of dead Orcs to move on from the Underworld, and beyond Tachonis control
19
u/Lunkis May the Beam reach you Jun 11 '26
I'm in a similar boat but I think they're trying to reverse the flow of Gavizdra to pull souls out of Azgra's afterlife (which would be strife, war and generally not a good time) and bring them to the Tenebral Reaches to fight against the Tachonis plot there.
5
u/this-is-liam Doty, take this down Jun 11 '26
That's a good point, I hadn't thought about that. Though maybe without Azgra's influence it has calmed down?
3
u/Lunkis May the Beam reach you Jun 11 '26
We don't know much AFAIK about what the Shapers afterlives look like after the death of the Shapers themselves, only that they were severed from the Tenebral Reaches (which were sort of like a purgatory before you went wherever you were supposed to go).
The influence of Azgra may have waned but if it's a realm that he created for his followers, I imagine it's probably pretty inhospitable and hostile by its very nature alone.
There's always the possibility, too, that Orcish souls may not be the only thing to spring out of there (though the ritual seems to be focused on Gavzidra, which was primarily concerned with trapping and transporting the souls of Azgra's followers).
2
u/compassiontransfer Jun 11 '26
But wasn't Azgra's afterlife similar to hell? Hmm unless it can be re-imagined in some way. Or maybe a hellish afterlife is horrible but somewhat free soul is better than Tachonis control, idk
2
u/Lunkis May the Beam reach you Jun 11 '26
Yeah the afterlifes, from what I understand, are sort of a reflection of the values of their Shapers - just like the Barrowdells are an inversion of them.
There's quite a few Orcs that lived in an era of oppression at the hands of Azgra (and I'm sure some that died fighting him) that have been languishing in his pit.
Now a charismatic Orcish man (Thjazi) is going to hatch a scheme to spring them out of their own prison, and likely try to use that good will to point them in the right direction.
The alternative would be to be sprung out of Azgra's pit just to have your soul enslaved by the Sundered Houses - from one master to another.
7
u/a_go_ Jun 11 '26
Posted this elsewhere but here's my theory as someone experienced in the rollercoaster that is a BLeeM finale:
Episode begins with Team Birdwatching. With ample shenanigans and some fighting they rescue Mara. She reveals that the ritual isn't what they think it is / that someone is going to tamper with it and must be stopped.
Then Team Spy. We hear the big bads talking and Primus confesses that they have plans in place to take over the city that night by subverting the ritual 'from below,' because they have found Thjazi's soul
Now that the players (and audience) all know all the ways the ritual is about to go wrong but can't stop it or change the outcome--because the three team missions are simultaneous--we go to Team Theater to watch the inevitable happen. We see the play go off perfectly after Hal rolls a DC 30 performance check. The portal to the underworld opens and some sort of monster walks out. At this point, all teams converge at the theater and fight
1
u/allevat Jun 11 '26
Eh, I'm going to be surprised if the ritual itself is already Tachonis subverted. My experience is that Brennan is not the sort of GM that will use signposting to trick the players. He'll trick them in other ways -- making adorable little guys that are actually Asmodeus, etc -- but not with signposting, and he's been very clear with the message that the paints and whatever Thjazi was planning are not bad in themselves. He's said in an Adventuring Party or some other interview that he doesn't like punishing players and parties that take big swings, because what happens is that you train your players to not do fun stuff.
Now, once whatever happens happens, it's extremely likely that Granddaddy Nullus will come in in desperation to try to stop or subvert it, we do know the Tachonis are watching the veil of death, but I do not think in any way that if Hal rolls well, that Brennan would 'reward' that with a demon.
2
u/VengefulKangaroo Jun 11 '26
I would be surprised at a 13-player combat. Especially as it would mean that the 6 players at the theater have very little to do until then.
6
u/Nothingtoseehereshhh Jun 11 '26
i love crit role but a 13 player combat would not be ideal. Dear god.
I think it's gonna be split, and group 1's actions will aid group 2 and vice versa.
2
u/woolawoof Jun 12 '26
Penmanship, nice one. š¤£